The LYLAS Podcast

The LYLAS Podcast, Season 3, Episode 57, "Tough Decisions"

• Season 3 • Episode 57

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It's decision time... whatever the decision is, what is your response or reaction... Do you listen to anxiety, what's "safe or familiar" or do you see the decision as an opportunity... as a gift? Coming to this crossroad happens... now what? We believe you've got this...

Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com

Jenny:

Welcome to LILAS. If you grew up in the 90s, you probably know what LILAS stands for and, by default, this podcast is for you what LILAS stands for and, by default, this podcast is for you.

Sarah:

Welcome.

Jenny:

Thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in once again as we devolve into a lovely chat about mental wellness. Here we go. Uh, welcome, so it's Thursday morning and uh, we have. No, we had no topic 60 minutes ago, but I decided we would talk about. Talk about decisions, big decisions in life, and I think, just to give you some history about where maybe this idea came from, this is it's the springtime.

Jenny:

I'm an educator. If you work in schools, then you know there's a lot of buzz this time of year, a lot of decisions about. You know, am I going to a different school? Am I going to teach a different grade level? Do I want to do something completely different? Do I even want to be an educator anymore? This time of year? There's a lot of rumors that swirl, a lot of moving pieces are happening right now, and so it just had me thinking about. I have several friends that are educators and thinking about how they're faced with some choices at this time of year. I know I certainly always did. It was something when that contract came out, you had to think like am I going to jump ship and try to find greener pastures, or am I going to settle in and stay with what I know and what's predictable. So if you're an educator that listens to this, this probably is pretty familiar to you this time of year. That's cool.

Sarah:

Well, and I think spring and you know all of us thinking about summer we're thinking automatically about change as it's coming into our lives in general, and you know, whether that's jobs, decisions with our kids, summer schedules, going on trips, vacations, this just seems like a natural time period for change to occur or for us to be in the position to make different decisions about our life. You know, things are springing up at this point in time, no pun intended, in order for us to kind of be more aware and zoned into it, and now I think it's a perfect time, perfect timing.

Jenny:

I think about all the years that I've, you know, heavily considered. There were several years the thought never even crossed my mind. You could not have, you know, had they removed me from the schools. I was so ingrained and so loved what I was doing at the time and I would have been devastated if they would have pulled me out and put me somewhere else or if there would have been any big change. But towards the end, last several years, every year, when I got that contract and I guess there's not a ton of professions where you actually think about you know, where you get the opportunity to have a choice or like these thoughts every year Most people aren't signing a yearly contract, I don't think anyway, but where you really think about you have to sit down.

Jenny:

All right, is this something I want to do for another year? What's the leadership like? What you know? What value am I adding? What is this adding to my life? You have to kind of go through those thoughts and for many years for me it was much easier to, especially when I had young kids. It was much easier to say you know, and I'm going to stick this out for another year because it's very predictable, I can control a lot of things when I know what to expect and I can plan for things.

Jenny:

And so, when I was sort of in the weeds and like being a, you know, a young mother, having young children and and having a career and all the things that was helpful for me to have something very predictable.

Jenny:

Yeah, however, you know different, you know moves on. And then other times you think maybe this is time, maybe this is the time to make a change. And I think anytime we're presented with a choice, first of all we have to realize what a blessing that is. If you have a choice, like if someone's saying, hey, do you want to come work for me here? Or say you know the fact that you even have a choice. Like if someone's saying, hey, do you want to come work for me here? Or say, right, you know the fact that you even have a choice like, recognize that blessing in itself, because a lot of people don't have choices and um, and then you have to really, I think, believe that if something is on, you know if it's brought you to this situation, have some faith that, like, something really good is on the other side of it for you. Have some faith that, like, something really good is on the other side of it for you. Whatever you choose Specifically, if you choose the thing that scares you.

Sarah:

Yeah, definitely. I love what you just said, though, that it is a beautiful thing to be put in a position of having a choice, and sometimes we, I think, whenever that lands on our lap, it can feel very uncomfortable or scary or, excuse me, off-putting. But really, what it is it's, it is an opportunity, and I do think that you're right If it it's being presented for a reason, and to see it as something that is a gift is, I think, just a way to kind of reframe, to appreciate it, to really open yourself up to whatever the possibilities may be from that um field of potential. You know, that's a really nice way to kind of step back away from whatever emotion and decision initially triggers within you and to again set it into a different perspective and see it as wow, this is cool, I now have an opportunity, so yeah.

Sarah:

And many people like you said aren't given that.

Jenny:

No, or that maybe they're not recognizing when they do have a choice or not create. I think in some ways we create choice. Right, if you get offered two jobs, you obviously filled out two job applications, so you have to put yourself, you have to do some action to put yourself in a position to receive those opportunities or choices, but, nonetheless, if something lands on you, I just I think that it means something right. It's something that you didn't realize that you wanted or needed or it's, you know, like we said, sort of like a gift from the universe of like, hey, it's time to deviate here, it's time to make some, some changes, but it's still hard. And I'm talking from like more of a professional standpoint, but I think you could apply this to like moving.

Jenny:

I know this woman is moving, you know, across the country right now and she was messaging me and she was like I'm scared, I don't know what to expect, and I'm like then you absolutely have to do it, like you absolutely have to If you're scared and you don't know what to expect, but you're willing, you have to do it.

Jenny:

You know that's, this is your sign. Yeah, but those are big life choices that completely changed the trajectory of your life. You know, when you up and move your entire family to a different state and start all over, and you know those are, those have huge I don't want to say ramifications, because I think really beautiful things can come from change. But it doesn't make those decisions any less hard.

Sarah:

No, it doesn't, and you're right about it being on a different trajectory, and we are the creators of our putting ourselves in the position on life's great chess board to open up to whatever opportunity can come, um, or even consequence can come. And so I think, in addition to seeing things as being a gift, whenever we find ourselves in the kind of like crossroads how we talked a little bit about in a previous episode, fork in the road so if this is resonating with you, go back and listen to that it's in season two but whenever we find ourselves in that kind of position with this thing, to really just again step back, see it as a blessing, as an opportunity, and then recognize that everything that we're presented with in some way probably relates back to a choice we made at some point in time. It's a law of karma, you know. It really does kind of come back to that guidance point where at one point we made a decision and we may have not even realized its impact or what trajectory, as you said, would put it, put us on at that point in time. But because, even if we made a micro decision, we're at this point now and so really it's about, I think, living consciously living with the awareness that every single and not to even stress you out with it, but just to again appreciate the power of the moments that we're given, because we're only given so many has the opportunity to then position us in a different place with different opportunities and moves that can then come from that.

Sarah:

So living consciously and recognizing that, I think, in some ways makes the bigger decisions less scary, you know, intimidating, because we're always aware that we're constantly creating our lives, are constantly creating opportunities, and so then, whenever we're presented with one, it's like oh, this is another one along the way, instead of like an oh moment, or you know wtf, what do I do now? Because whenever those things happen, those are freeze moments. Anytime you have that fight, when confronted with a situation, your fight or flight goes into freeze and freezes never. Humans aren't meant to freeze like let's think about that physically. We're just not meant to. You know right. And when that happens it throws our entire system off balance mm-hmm and so it really does kind of take that operate.

Jenny:

Whenever you find yourself in that moment, that's a time to just go back to that meditation, deep breathing, you know, just observe the world instead of react or respond to it, or, you know, take a few breaths, walk away do something, or just realize that, how much control that you have and the power and that choice of A that you have, the choice and B, if you end up choosing the wrong thing, then you can always make another choice, like nothing is final other than death, nothing is final, nothing is ever finished. You can always change your mind again and do something different. And I think, like I said, for so many years I was sort of paralyzed in the well, it's predictable. I know what I'm doing, I'm invested in this community, I know where to go to do, get all my needs met and you know it's supportive of my life, the family that I'm building, and so for so many years I just didn't see any reason to step out and try something new or different, and I don't regret that at all. But now I look at just making that simple decision to say, hey, I'm gonna take a year off and figure it out and see what else is out there I've.

Jenny:

You know I had a great opportunity at one school. I have a job that I could have. Only, you know, I couldn't have even dreamed this job up and just yesterday I had two people reach out with opportunities like that first choice of I'm going to take a break, and then, like the choice of like OK, I'm going to do this short term part time thing, and then it just it continued to evolve into new choices and I don't know, I just I think back on that woman that was so afraid and I'm like what was I so afraid of? What was the worst thing? That was going to happen? You know, you can always go back, you can always find something that you just you just keep moving along and making a different choice the next time. But that fear is partly what keeps us from acknowledging when we have a choice and and keeps us in. You know, doing the things that are comfortable. Yeah, learned anything in 41 years like, do what's uncomfortable, and that's where the real magic kind of lies. It does.

Sarah:

I think, I think we all get stuck in those traps, you know, because we don't want to naturally disrupt a system, and I think that we have beliefs about the efficiency of the system that we're living in, whether or not it's working or not. Was it working on some levels, sure, but was it working on others that maybe we were not even attuned to know? And that's really where, if you're just doing something because it's easy, or because you're used to it, or because it's, I don't mean safe as a like, a bad or a negative term, but I think that we use it as a way to stay stagnant or as a way to even as an avoidance strategy, in order to not go with whatever thing is there.

Sarah:

And so I think or to not grow, yeah, yeah, and just because you believe that you are comfortable, if you were feeling that underlying like agitation or settling, you're not comfortable.

Sarah:

Okay, there's a big storm of exactly yes, that is below the surface, yeah, yeah you're right, you, you might see like the ocean is being really calm on top, but I mean down below that there's some wild happening and know that's just kind of the way that things work. And then I would say the other piece to it comes from again, kind of even going back to our energy discussion, physics once something's in motion, it stays in motion, you know, and once you are in the motion of being an active creator within your own life, where you are making those decisions, where you were consciously kind of staying within that moment and moving, then more things are going to pop up. Yeah, and I just, I mean, that's how, that's how things kind of work. You know, I always had that saying. I would say it to my patients.

Sarah:

Sometimes when I was working, I was like you know, we can, and this is at points whenever there was frustration because things weren't happening maybe in our lives right, or we saw them out as being like too hard to kind of move, or avoidance, fear, whatever the situation might've been. And at one point you know I don't have a poker face or a filter, um and I would just say, you know, we can sit on a park bench and just watch life and everything just kind of passes by, in which that we were participating or being a part of it. But if we just stay seated on that park bench, there's only two things that are going to happen to us. We're going to get pissed on eventually by a dog or shit on by a bird, like is this really what we're doing? I mean, but that's factual, you know. So just stand up.

Jenny:

Just stand up and do something.

Sarah:

Whatever, it is right, right, even if it's just a stretch.

Jenny:

Good or bad, just make some sort of move. Um, now I could. You said it perfectly, like, just because it's working for some areas of your life doesn't mean that it's working for everything. And you even realize that and I definitely can identify with that and I have so much compassion for that person that was just trying to hold it all together. You know, like, figure it out. And I had created this story of, like this is the profession I chose and this is as good as it gets. And you know this. You know, just stick with it.

Jenny:

And I think that letting go of some of those stories or those expectations we have for ourselves, and just being curious about what else is out there and what does true fulfillment feel like, and when you start to realize that you have some ability to create that as your reality, like once that train gets rolling, it's really hard, hard to stop.

Jenny:

You know you're like I'm going to figure this out and you will, you will. I mean, I am not the smartest or the uh, the best school psychologist that ever. You know, like there there are a lot of things I'm good at, there's a lot of things I'm not good at, but my ability to figure it out and willingness to take a chance has served me well in life over and over again, in my career and just in life in general. So I think we have to remember that we have the power to choose. We have the power to create our life. I know it sounds so cheesy and that we've heard power to choose. We have the power to create our life. I know it sounds so cheesy and that we've heard people say that before, but that is very easy to forget when comfortable, predictable and fit the story or the narrative that you have in your head.

Sarah:

And that we're strong away from that, yeah, right. And then we have, and we have a skills set to assist us in those moments, right, it's just like we just all of a sudden get hit with something and then just forget that we actually know like we can brush our teeth. You know what I mean? That we can, we can do things because the tidal wave again, I guess we're just talking about oceans today. Who knew, who knew Are we talking about oceans?

Sarah:

I know we're talking about getting shit on by a bird five seconds ago. I know. And then water, and like currents and things. So whenever that tsunami hits, though again the wave, we just forget that we have the skills to actually do something and we minimize our what happens. It's like one of those cognitive traps I forget which one we maximize the difficulties and the problems associated with the situation and minimize our ability to cope with it.

Sarah:

That's right or to move forward with it. And if that is one of our automatic thoughts that we just kind of get stuck in, then anytime we run into something it's going to then trigger all of those feelings of insecurity. The fear response is going to then, yeah, be present.

Jenny:

I mean when I got offered the job that I have now or the person that I work with, my colleague, when she reached out. I remember having like a moment of panic, like you can't do this, you have no idea, like this, you are so out of your league. And and then I remember thinking like fuck it.

Jenny:

Like if it's a disaster and I go down in flames like, okay, I'm unemployed. I was like, okay, I can find something else to do if I totally blow this up. But like that initial response in your head that's just like I don't know, is this a good idea? Um, you know, it hits all of us, I don't care who you are. I think everybody has a moment of pause of like can I do this? But, just like you said, like we have the skills, you hone the skills at this point to figure out whatever life throws at you. And so, having that belief that, like you can do whatever is put in your path, you know whatever, whatever is meant for us won't miss us.

Jenny:

We've said that before and there's a lot of truth to that. Um, and it's really cool, cause I do feel like being on the other side of it now, of like making a decision and like seeing how this is playing out years later. It's really cool to be on the other side and be like that worked. I did in undergrad. We had to do a thesis and I did mine on athletes. I looked at athletes versus non-athletes in the college community and I looked at internal locus of controlletes in the college community. Um, and I looked at internal locus of control versus external locus of control. Like who, if you have an internal locus of control, you feel like you have control, you control your destiny, you control what happens external. The world is controlling your life and your destiny, and athletes, by by and large, have internal locus of control. I thought that was so interesting that athletes tend to think that they can create their own destiny, whereas non-athletes tend to feel more, um, like you know, there's kind of bumping along through life and life will, like pinball, life will get you where you're supposed to be. Um, so just interesting that that resurfaces a lot.

Jenny:

I think about that a lot in the research I did for that thesis, because I remember as a young 20, what was I like, 22, 21 year old, thinking that's the secret to life and internal control. Like I figured it out. I have cracked the code to life people as a 21 year old, and that is simply that you have to believe that you create your destiny. And I don't know how that 22 year old and this 41 year old I don't know where I got lost in that and forgetting that I had the power to create my, my destiny. But, um, yeah, it, just it. It really I think about that a lot and how I figured out and then somehow I forgot it, does it? Do you ever feel that way? You're like I knew this shit. I knew this 20 years ago. Why am I now like just remembering? Oh, yes, I can in fact, make choices that influence the outcome of my life.

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah, I think that we all do in different ways, you know, right, do I wish I would have used the skills that I preach about? You know, sure, in your 20s? Well, probably 20s or 30s? Yeah well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't even. I think that I think what you said earlier about looking back on whoever you were at that point in time with compassion is important, because I don't even know who that individual was in some ways. You know, I don't even.

Jenny:

I mean, you know, or you were her, you're just different now.

Sarah:

Yeah, but it's no different than your 14 year old self or your eight year old self.

Jenny:

You know her, you know her, you're just different. Now, yeah, but it's no different than your 14 year old self or your eight year old self.

Sarah:

You know, you know her, you know her, you're just different much different and just the same, as, like, I don't know who I'm going to be like in five years from now. You know what I mean.

Jenny:

I don't know what kind of 80 year old I'm going to be Right we have ambitions. We send each other memes about this you know, whenever we're on a farm with like a million animals talking to him all day. Hopefully that would be kind of amazing. But yeah, I think that having compassion for our former self or just where we were in life, is so important Not to hate on them, not to bring yourself down, not to feel bad about things.

Jenny:

I mean, we live and learn and you move forward and you say I have a lot of compassion for that person that was just trying to survive. Yeah, this is what you're doing. You don't even have the capacity to think about change or creating. You know what I mean. You're just trying to survive, and that's a different. That's a different frame of mind than somebody who's trying to grow or or do some work on themselves red light to really be aware of, like.

Sarah:

If you're in survival mode instead of growth mode or instead of like, in a way like a challenger kind of mode, a motivative kind of mode, then we that's assigned to kind of like step back and really not so much look at the like, what you said, the external factors, but what is happening internally, internally. That is then again kind of reinforcing the cycle of my thoughts and whatever's happening externally, or the choices I'm making because of how I feel here and then how that influences the external outcomes or opportunities that present itself. So, survival human beings are not meant to live in survival mode, even thinking about from like a health site kind of standpoint, whenever. One of the reasons why we are so unhealthy is because we live in a perpetual state of stress and our bodies weren't designed to do that. Our bodies were just designed to be freaked out whenever we were getting chased by a bear. They were not designed to be thinking about the bear chasing us down the road. And it's not there.

Jenny:

Or the possibility that the bear is going to chase you down the road Right.

Sarah:

Right, and our minds were also not designed to, to not get up into, to move or to do things. They just they were not made that way by design, and so they were always taught to be active. You know, whether that be searching for food, building a house, doing a routine, our bodies have a natural circadian rhythm which is then on purpose to be active during certain points of time and so to not be, we're going against it. But then our thoughts again, or we allow that emotional override to kind of kick into play, and then that cascading effect happens whenever the decisions then reflect whatever is happening here.

Jenny:

Yeah, those micro decisions as daily you hit your alarm clock, you didn't work out, you didn't meditate today, you didn't drink your water, whatever it is, those little micro decisions that we make every day, that sort of make up, you know how we behave that day, and there's a lot of factors. But I think, just getting back to like, if you're in survival mode, you know you're like, yeah, I would love to just make a choice and have a different life and love my and I get that. But I think what we're saying and I have a lot of compassion for that but what we are trying to say is recognize that you're in survival mode number one and start to peel back and think about, okay, what could you do? What are some maybe micro changes that you could make that move you towards having some other choices in life? You know you got to start small.

Jenny:

It's like the smallest things over time just start to open up door after door. But you have to make that first choice of like oh hey, I don't want to live like this. Right, there's nothing else out there for me in life. I'm going to find it somehow. You know you have to make that choice first and foremost, but we tend to just go back to like lists, like if you're faced with a big choice, it's like well, let's make the list of pros and cons and see what weighs out, and I think you sort of set yourself up, you know, because there's always going to be pros and cons to anything any choice that you're going to make.

Jenny:

You have to really decide. I think for me recently, the key is does it scare me, mm-hmm, does it? Because scared and excited feel the same. So I'm probably more of like it's exciting, but that I immediately interpret it as like oh, it scares me, I should do this, and I don't mean like jump off a building, because I'll never do that, like any of that stuff, skydive no, thank you. But it scares you in a way of like this might be hard, but I'll figure it out.

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah. And if you're, if your body is conditioned to recognize that physiological or even we've labeled it as an emotional experience, as one that is more anxiety provoking, then that's what it's going to see it as, instead of excitement or opportunity. And so it's just about you know what we have again, unconditionally conditioned or unintentionally conditioned our um selves to recognize things as being. You know, um really really comes into play with that. And I think another thing to be considerate of is that, if you know, we look at things as just being like I can't do it, it's so hard Again, that's that it's almost, and I don't like this, I don't like this word at all, but it's just because I don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't use it. I guess we then adapt almost like a victim mindset. And if we're continuing to almost see ourselves as the world or factors or different things are against me, then you are unable at that point or unwilling to transform and to see things as being different.

Sarah:

And I understand there are tons of obstacles. I mean, back in the day I worked in a clinic with folks who were addicted, lost their homes, lost families, were on government assistance, had no driver's license, no education, addicted to drugs, so let's just go ahead and throw that on there. Lost their kids, were trying to get their kids back. Horrible health because of the consequences of it, and even in those deep pits of hell, you can start to rebuild, you know. You can start to make.

Sarah:

Yeah, there are micro decisions that we can start to make that can then get our life put on a different trajectory. And it takes a lot of courage, it takes a lot work, but it takes us actually being in the driver's seat instead of allowing something else, someone else, to be in that position. Yeah, assault centers or domestic violence places, all of those things possibilities are there and they are amazing, so bleak and like we are trying to find a very tiny needle and a very large haystack. And it is still. It's within us to do that, Because the true again, true self is one that is a survivor, that is a fighter, that is motivated, that is driven to live. In a lot of ways, that's our biological basis, is to do that, and so we just have to work with that in order to get to the next point.

Jenny:

And so you know again, it may seem like from different places and things that it's not possible, but it just or it may feel like you don't have any choices, like that was so great what you just said about your experience and working with people addicted to drugs or whatever the case is like people that are really struggling and that it doesn't look like there's a lot of opportunities in life or a lot of choices. But, like you said, like there's always a choice, there's always some choice, whether that's like to get yourself into a rehab, like that's the first choice, that's the first step you're going to take.

Jenny:

That then is just going to flower into many other choices in your life, many other opportunities and you, but you have to make that first one, whatever it is. So and those are hard choices, right? Anybody that's ever put themselves in any kind of rehab will tell you. I think of Craig's episode back in season two, first episode of season two. Like you know, that first step I mean he had gone to centers before. But when you make that decision of like I mean he had gone to centers before, but when you?

Jenny:

make that decision of like. I want something different. I want a different life than this is right now, and it might be a perfectly good life. My life wasn't bad before I made the choice to quit working. It was fine. But you know, was it everything that I wanted? No, it wasn't. You know, was it everything that I wanted? No, it wasn't. And I had to make that first choice to now, where I can say like I'm way more excited about life, I'm way more feel like I'm living my life, versus just going through the motions of life. Just, you know, breathing, existing. I'm living it. It's a very different feeling. Everybody deserves, everybody deserves to feel that. Yeah. So you are faced with a big choice right now. If you've got something looming out there and you are really struggling to make a choice, first of all thank your lucky stars that you have a choice and then, second of all, choose to believe that whatever exists on the other side of that choice is something amazing for you.

Sarah:

And that you're going to figure it out.

Jenny:

Whatever, it is worst case scenario, you're going to figure it out. If it's a total dumpster fire. You're going to figure it out and have the next choice and the choice after that. So don't be afraid to try something new, to take the path of least resistance. I feel like I throw out all of these over overshared sayings, but they're so damn true.

Sarah:

Yes, and I, I use this, I, we, we all hate hearing them, we all hate saying them and we all hate seeing them. But there's a reason why they're overshared it's because at some point or another things just become facts and we can. My patients usually say this too. I would say well, I, you know, I don't like always saying this, but it just kind of is what it is. And they're like we used to hate it whenever you would say that, but then they just kind of were like but now I just see that that is it, is it, and so you know, at that point that's a decision point. If you're even making that statement, that's probably a decision point. Pay attention to your words. You know it was because you're. Again, it can create an incongruence and misalignment and if we're living our lives that are misaligned, then we're missing opportunities, missing choices that are standing right there.

Jenny:

Yeah, it is what it is. My dad used to say that all the time too. One of my favorite teachers that I've worked with she was a kindergarten teacher. She had a little plaque right next to her computer that said that same thing. Because it does. It covers so much. But if you get to that feeling of like resignation, of like it is what it is, I guess I'll just deal with it. It's a clue, right.

Sarah:

It's a clue.

Jenny:

Maybe there's another choice on the horizon.

Sarah:

Hurry up, pay attention, it's coming your way, that's right. It's a nudge. It's a nudge. Back from our last week's episode. Pay attention, those are nudges. A decision is a nudge.

Jenny:

An opportunity to make some changes. Anywho, that's all we got for this week. Folks, check us out on Facebook and Instagram at Lylas Podcast. Check out our website at LylasPodcastcom. We've been working hard. We have updated lots of stuff on that website, so check us out. Leave us a comment. And also, if you are listening to this on Apple or Spotify, please leave us a review.

Sarah:

Yes.

Jenny:

Apparently, those are important, so we would love for please leave us a review. Apparently, those are important, so we would love for you to leave us a review. Let us know if you want to hear a topic. Let us know if we're terrible. Let us know if we're great. I don't care what you tell us. Tell us something, because apparently people like ratings. So give us some feedback, check us out there and then YouTube.

Sarah:

We have a YouTube station. Some of you guys have been commenting on our YouTube videos that we've been posting and watching some of the vids on there. Um, sometimes we'll post like little follow-ups to episodes, little like micro lessons, so to speak, or um just updates on what we're doing in our own individual lives. Those also get posted on our website. So you know, there's some crossover there, but there's lots of opportunities. So if you're left scratching your head at the end of these episodes, sometimes go back and listen to the ones that we may have referenced. But then also check out our website, check out our YouTube station, you know, look into these other areas, because it's all just extensions of this main place. So that's right.

Jenny:

We got lots of good topics coming, lots of good guests. We're very excited. We're going to wrap up season three and get rolling on season four, so stay with us. We love you, lylas. We out, thank you.

People on this episode

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Jenny Saunders

Co-host
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Sarah Stevens

Co-host