Breast Cancer. Choices Nobody Explains Clearly

Nobody prepares you for the moment a medical conversation quietly shifts from saving your life to “rebuilding” your body.

We’re joined by Erica Deligne, a TEDx speaker, fashion stylist, breast cancer survivor, and going flat advocate, to talk about the choices patients face after a breast cancer diagnosis and why informed consent is still painfully inconsistent. Erica walks us through being diagnosed with stage one invasive ductal carcinoma, hearing the usual list of options, and realizing that reconstruction with implants is often treated like the default. From breast implant illness stories in patient communities to what many women only discover on the FDA site, we dig into the risks, the missing education, and why “safe” is not the same as “fully explained.”

We also get specific about aesthetic flat closure, what it means surgically, and why some patients experience “flat denial” even after clearly requesting to go flat. From there, the conversation widens into beauty standards, the pressure to look “normal,” and the freedom that can come from choosing health, comfort, and longevity over perfection. Erica shares how she blends body autonomy with practical style, including guides that help women dress confidently in a flat chest, without turning their lives into a constant before-and-after story.

This is part one of a two-part conversation. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs better information, and leave a review so more women can find it when they’re searching for real options.

Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com

Transcript

Why This Conversation Has Take Two

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey folks, before we get into our discussion with breast cancer survivor and going flat advocate Erica DeLine on health, beauty standards, and redefining femininity with confidence, we want to let you know that this episode will be split into two parts. So be sure to turn into both episodes with Erica. That's it for now. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Take two. This is actually our second attempt at this, our first one. Um was a great conversation. I'm really sad that it did not record because I I think I said at some point during that conversation that I felt a like a part of me healed during that. So I'm hoping we're not going to have the same conversation, but we are going to um to talk again with today's guest. I was sort of laughing. I listened to this other podcast um called Smartless. I don't know if you've ever heard of that one, but it has Jason Bateman and Will Arnett. But uh they had Matthew McConaughey on and had some technical difficulties, and so they had to get him back on to re-record. And so I was like laughing. I was like, well, she's our she's our McConaughey. You know, this is take two. Um, it might even be better than the first. You never know, right? Um so you know we're very excited to have our guest back today. She's not only a TEDx speaker, she is a fashion stylist, a breast cancer survivor, an activist, a single mom dedicated to redefining beauty standards, uh, empowering women to be informed and helping them own their personal style with confidence. Uh, she started delightfully, or yes, delightfully deligned in 2014 as a fashion and style outlet. And after beating breast cancer and choosing not to reconstruct with implants due to their toxicity, and we're going to talk about that, she became a flat-chested survivor in 2021 and began blending that passion for style with uh purpose-driven work. Erica's expanded that platform to include her advocacy and education, empowering women to make informed choices when they're faced with a mastectomy, and encouraging a state of mind that really values beauty from within and long-term peace over perfection. We are so excited that she agreed to come back for this conversation. Welcome back to the Lyos Podcast, Erica DeLine.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Thank you. I'm so excited to be doing this again because you guys are just a treat to hang out with.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Thanks. You know, I got goosebumps again whenever Ginny was reading your uh bio just because of how impactful. And I just am so excited you've agreed to come back on because your message, I think, just hits so many people at so many different levels, and I I'm just pumped and ready to go again. So everybody better listen up, take notes because you are about ready to go to church, to school, to all of the places, because this is this is a life-changing podcast right now.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

You guys are too sweet. But yes, it is important information. I'm not gonna deny that for all women.

Erica’s Diagnosis And New Mission

SPEAKER_01 3:12

No, and it really starts with like you were already into fashion, you had already started, right, the style outlet. And then what was it around like 2020 when you got diagnosed with breast cancer?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yes. So I started my fashion blog in 2014, and um, it had already gained quite a bit of traction at that point, and then I got diagnosed with um breast cancer in 2021. So I was diagnosed with stage one invasive ductal carcinoma. And yeah, I turned my platform into one of advocacy because I just think that we're meant to share our stories. You know, our purpose here is connection. And um I think the more we share, uh, the better we all learn. And, you know, that's exactly what I learned from other women's stories being shared as well through my experience. So I think it's important to just open up all those doors and be transparent. Um, and I think transparency is really needed in the world right now. Amen. Yeah. So amen.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Now, okay, so you get diagnosed in 2021, and I'm assuming you're given kind of the standard

Treatment Options And The Default Script

SPEAKER_01 4:30

um options, right? There are at least the ones that we've all heard of. You can have like a lumpectomy, you can have a mastectomy. Wait, is that sort of your experience as well?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

And in my TEDx talk, I actually go through my journey and the research process. So when I was diagnosed, I saw two different um surgeons and both presented me with, you know, the same options lumpectomy with radiation, single mastectomy, or double mastectomy with implant reconstruction. Um, I was only a candidate for implant reconstruction, just simply I did not have enough areas to take from to do deep. And that alone comes with a lot of other risks and complications. It's a very intensive surgery. So um, you know, I very much in the beginning was agreed to implant reconstruction just because that was what was presented as what most women do. And um, you know, it's funny how the conversation changes from changing your life to rebuilding your body. Um so initially I did agree to reconstruct with implants, but my gut just was not settling right with that decision. And I always think body language and feelings is like our first sign of intuition. And so I dove in and started doing my own research. And the more I learned, I joined like patient like communities. You know, there's this group. I think

Implant Risks And What Patients Discover

SPEAKER_02 6:05

it's the specific name is um breast implant and healing by Nicole. There are hundreds of thousands of women in there that share their stories about uh symptoms related to breast implant illness. I mean, you're talking joint pain, hair loss, rashes, unexplained symptoms that began after implants. And but what stood out to me the most wasn't just the symptoms, it was the commonality I was seeing after explant surgery, removal of implants, their symptoms either subsided or completely disappeared. And I just was blown away by that because it was a very common factor that all women were sharing. And there's our studies that support that information. Um, but unfortunately, it's not a confirmed medical diagnosis. So a lot of surgeons don't talk about these risks to women when they're being presented with breast reconstruction. Um, they don't really inform women. Women have to go to the FDA site to read these risks on their own. Um, now, granted, surgeons are supposed to be doing checklists with these women when they go through this process and informing them of these updated risks that are now highlighted. Um, but there's no tracking to make sure that they're doing that. And a lot of them don't. Um, I know I didn't by either surgeon, and there's still surgeons out there that present them as safe. And um, so I think that women go into it a little bit blinded. Um I joined this group, Fierce Flat Forward community as well. And a lot of the women in there are patients who had done breast and plant um reconstruction and then now they're flat due to all the complications that they had experienced and in deep as well. I mean, you sometimes the tissue doesn't take, and you know, they just complain about all their, I hate to use the word complain, but you do end up complaining because you have all these lasting symptoms that doctors don't really inform you about that you're gonna get. And they don't know any better. They haven't experienced it to relay you it truthfully to you. So I think the whole process for women needs to be more resources and tools handed to them to be able to make these informed decisions and pointing that groups so where they can make a sound decision knowing that okay, these risks are here. And that's why I put together a guide personally of all the research that I learned. It's called after diagnosis. You can download it on my website, delightfullydeline.com. Um, and it's D E L I G N E, just for reference. Um, but it highlights every single treatment option there is, their risk and comparison, and you know, to be up front, like some of these, a lot of them, you're gonna have nerve damage. And that's another thing that's not really explained to patients too when they go sign up for these to you know, surgeries. So um it was just my way of trying to help the transparency and be help women to be informed. So that's one tool that I did create for women. They'll hand you books, you know, when you go and get diagnosed, they'll hand you a book about breast cancer treatment options, surgery options. But when I was handed my book, you know, aesthetic flat closure wasn't in the book. And so I think it's getting better. There's more awareness that women do want an aesthetic flat closure, which is an intentional choice, which is what I ended up doing. Um, it's an intentional choice to go flat, and you cannot choose later to reconstruct um because they take all of the breast tissue and surrounding extra skin away. And you're left with a very smooth, um, flat chest wall. Just going flat and not being specific about an aesthetic flat closure, they do leave extra skin. Um, and which, you know, 25% of women experience flat denial by surgeons, where they will leave extra skin in the surgery room just in case they she changes her mind when she's requested to go with an aesthetic flat closure. And, you know, so there's a huge, there's a huge narrative that needs to be changed here. Um, because I think a lot of it is outdated paradigms that, you know, women are prioritizing their health more and they want longevity and they don't want to have to worry about multiple procedures down the road. Um, and the risk of, you know, one in three women experience complication risks when they do breast reconstruction, mound reconstruction. And, you know, that's the deep surgeries or, you know, breast implant illness. But one in three women experience reconstruction or uh experience risk and complication. That's a that's not a rare occurrence. Right. Like, you know, but neither surgeon told me that when I was signing up for breast reconstruction with implants. And so women have to do their own research and not just be guided to a certain decision. Um, because that's very much the process. Um, and you know, even if I do hear feedback from women saying that they were presented the flat option to go flat, um, but it's very much just shoved under the rug. Like it's mentioned, it's not really talked about, but it's just mentioned like an afterthought where so much more focus is on reconstructing the mounds of the breast.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Um, so yeah, there's just there's a lot of improvement in um this industry of care specifically. Um but yeah, that was kind of a long, long.

Aesthetic Flat Closure And Flat Denial

SPEAKER_02 12:45

I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Well, I'm curious why you think um it's pushed more to do reconstruction. Is it like because they can make more money? And I don't want to, we're not painting surgeons out to be villains here, but like honestly, is it like a money thing? They can make more money by reconstructing, or do you think it is purely aesthetics?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

In 1998, the Women's Health Care Cancer Initiative Act was passed where insurances were, you know, forced to cover the cost of breast reconstruction. Later, early in the 2000s, breast implants came back and got FDA approval, which they were they were on a ban after thousands of lawsuits from women coming about were coming forward. Say, did you know? Okay, let's retract. So early found finding like founders of breast implants, you know, they just tested them in a dog for three, two to three weeks for their safety and efficacy. And then they immediately started being placed into women. Yeah. So there was not, there was not any anything, you know, put in place to actually make sure that this was safe for women.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

And so over the years, you know, after they were, you know, developed, I think it was like 1962, was the first um woman who received breast implants, either 1962 or 1965. Um, but then, you know, they quickly became popular. So they were allowed to stay on the market while safety data was being collected for companies. And then just after all the lawsuits that came about in the early 1990s, the FDA had no choice but to place a ban on silicon breast implants for cosmetic use to the public, but they were still allowed for breast reconstruction use um for breast cancer patients, unfortunately. Which is odd because, you know, right, these women, their bodies are already immunocompromised. And if thousands of what are coming forward saying they're sick from these devices, yeah, why would you still allow it to be inserted into breast cancer patients at that point? Right. And I still ask that question today. I mean, and yes, it's very much after they became after the Healthcare Initiative Act to for cancer, women's cancer for reconstruction to be funded uh in their treatment process. I think that began the point where it was just like automatic. Okay, so the implant reconstruction, like this is what what most women do, because a lot of women don't want to lose their breast. But that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be informed of all the risks that they're signing up for. And then later, when they are incurring these problematic symptoms and illnesses, they are taken aback and are dumbfounded, like, why is this happening to me? Because they were never informed.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

And if they were informed, would they have signed up for that?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

You know, you have to ask yourself, would they have signed up if they were fully informed? And um, and some women do. Some women do, and that's their choice. That's absolutely okay as long as she knows what she's signing up for. And that's what's not happening right now. And it's I I hear it every day for women who message me and I see it in the groups and the chats, and these risks are not being, you know, translated over to the patient. And I I do think that there is a huge gap of education for these women when they sign up and make these decisions. So yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

It's so hard not to get angry listening to that, right? Like we deserve at minimum to be informed, right? This is why we pay medical professionals so much money and and trust them and kind of put them on this pedestal because they are the keepers of the knowledge. They are the ones that are supposed to walk us and through this and kind of hold our hands when you're faced with something like some sort of medical issue. And so I it's just so frustrating. At the end of the day, many things that we deal with as women.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

At the end of the day, healthcare is a business.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

It is a business, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

At least in the United

Money, History, And Medical Incentives

SPEAKER_02 17:35

States, it is it is a business. You know, there's a big kickback to implants, and you know, the cost of implants, you know, it's uh it's a very profitable business. Yeah. So but it's unfortunate that it's being made at the expense of women's health. Yeah. And that's the true fact.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

That's like tip of the iceberg, right? I mean, for the things that, you know, at the expense of women's health. Like think of all the things. We could probably have a whole podcast just about that in itself.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Um, it's yeah, I mean, the all the so there's so many industries that you know thrive off insecurity of women. That's a good way to put it. We've been, I mean, the media makes it that way. I mean, think about it. We're like guarded with ads, and this is what beauty looks like. And it's so over-perfected. I mean, I I think back to like back in the day in the 90s, like Baywatch. I mean, just boobs. I mean, thankfully, I think the huge boobs are a thing of the past. Like, I think, you know, the aesthetically, it's like, you know, the new like ballot. I think that it's coming back, like the pendulum is swinging back. Um, but for decades, for decades, it was focused on how to improve this, how to enhance this. And it's fine if women want to do that, but like, where did this focus on targeting women on their insecurities? And it has everything to do with just like, I feel like over the years, I mean, just growing up underneath the patriarchy and realizing that, you know, aesthetics for women, and like I think that that outdated paradigm shifting away for sure, because women can make their own money now, can be independent. And you know, they're not so focused on just like being aesthetically pleasing for a man. And I think a lot of women who enter the resistance from surgeons who want to go flat, it's exactly from that. Like this picture of a woman in their minds has breasts, but we are not defined by our breasts. Like we're so much more than just breasts. And you know what? I bet you, if we took a poll from women, they would be like, take my breasts away. I'm so tired of these like taggy, like fat flaps, like I don't need them anymore. You know, they just I'm tired of wearing a bra. Like, you know, women are exhausted by their tits sometimes, you know. Like true story. But you know, I just yeah, there's a lot that can be said around this, you know, narrative. But um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

It's so true. Though I think, you know, even like postpartum breasts, I like couldn't wait for them to go away just because I wasn't used to having big boobs. I hated the way they looked in clothes, I hated everything about them. Um working out all of that. I was like, get these things out of here. I just want to go back to my nice small chest and I'm

Beauty Standards And Redefining Femininity

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I'm fine with that, you know. Um, but it's what how powerful that is, too, to be able to be like, no, I get to decide what beauty is for myself. And like I hate that we have to be in our 40s to make that sort of like stand, right? It took us like 40 years to get here, but I do credit some of the younger generation for kind of they seem to be a little bit more resistant to or more resistant to like beauty standards that were set, and you know, I think that that sort of started it for us.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah, I think so too. I mean, if you think back what we were projected as beauty, I mean, Kate Moss was everywhere, and she was just like this, real, thin woman. She's gorgeous, and you know, she's probably naturally thin, but that was everywhere. Now we have more. Inclusive campaigns where all body types are kind of more presented and accounted for. Unfortunately, we don't see any flat women accounted for. But, you know, and hopefully down the road that narrative will change. Yeah. Because there are more women choosing to go flat and choosing an aesthetic flat closure because they are prioritizing the health of their bodies first and their longevity. And I think that at the end of the day, we live in such a toxic environment to begin with, which is drives a lot of the breast cancer. And I think women just want to feel good. I think we already face enough problems when we encounter body changes as we age. And the thought of going through multiple surgeries, number one, going under anesthesia is not good on your body at all. And to think that you're going to choose implants and then you're going to sign up for every 10 years and more like a surgery. And then not to account for it, some of these women, when they experience complications, they go through 10 to 15 surgeries trying to keep their reconstructed breasts because they experience complications. And a lot of that has to do with too, like if you undergo chemo radiation, your skin is not going to heal as well. And that's where a lot of the complications stem from, unfortunately. And um I just think that more women are definitely wanting to just show up and feel good in life. You know what I mean? You can you don't wait, like you don't wake up and joy, you wake up in dread because you feel bad. You have aches and pains, or and I think that was like my biggest thing was that I just wanted to return to my normal baseline. And I think that having foreign objects in me would prevent that from happening. And you know, because think about it, if you're used to working out, doing you're right, you can't do that. Like you can't sleep, you know, in your regular sleeping position comfortably. Um, those things need to be mentioned in their conversations for women to think about. Like, am I willing to lose this level of comfortability in order to maintain rest balance? Which by the way, you don't even have a sensation there when you reconstruct. So it's definitely to you know just appease the form of what society projects on women's regular body of women, which is natural. Um, but I always say this to women if you choose to go flat, you don't have to announce it to the world. I only do it because, you know, there is a need, I see a need for it. I had a platform to do it. And I'm thinking about the, you know, the health of women as a whole, you know, women who align with it, they're happy they found my page. But women can also sometimes feel I just experienced this like a divisiveness. And I there's no divisiveness, it's just education, and there's no wrong choice for women who do decide to reconstruct or to go flat. It's what is their level of preference and what they're comfortable with in society because it is going against society norms to lose your breast. But I also tell women you don't have to announce it to the world that you lost your breast. You can wear prostheses, you can wear breast forms and still be comfortable in society. And 100% no one has to know, like unless you want to share it. Right. Yeah. But there is that level of like intimacy with their partner that they get concerns about. And I always say this if your partner has problems

Partners, Dating, And Self Worth

SPEAKER_02 26:30

with that, then I would question that relationship because that's not a solid foundation, if that's what is gonna break that relationship.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Right. And you know, when I chose to go flat, I knew that it would weed out the lack for a better term, shitty men.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

The shallow met.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

The shitty shallow men. Yeah. But um, yeah, because I think that men who have developed and worked on themselves, they know that appearance is not everything. Everyone's gonna age at some point. And you want a partner that's solid and growing together spiritually, and you know, experiencing life, not just what bodies can offer, but experiencing life at a different level where it's just I don't know how to explain it, but there are men out there that like I was at um uh an event in New York, and the one of the coaches for um the Patriots was there, and you I was sharing my story with him, and he just found it amazing that I chose to go flat because his mother died from breast cancer, and she experienced so many complications with her reconstruction process. And he wishes that she would have just skipped that and gone flat as well, because you know, ultimately it could have been the cause of everything, you know, as why they lost her.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

You know. Um yeah, you know, I had done some research after our first talk and um was just looking at different medical conditions and um that are considered life-saving, that have some element of surgery, you know, involved in them, like uh cardiopulmonary bypass, like where they crack your chest, all this kind of stuff, and the informed consent process. And out

Informed Consent Gaps And Global Views

SPEAKER_00 28:50

of all of them, in just a very brief amount of time that I kind of went through and looked at it, breast cancer patients were the ones that were presented with the most cosmetic options instead of anything else. Like if you have your chest cracked open from having open heart surgery, there is a massive scar, you know, there, depending on if they take graphs and your legs and arms and stuff. They actually inform them of all of that. But whenever it comes to um, but they don't offer any type of reconstruction, but whenever it came to breast, that they just it's cosmetic was the number one thing to go to. The second most common surgical procedure that offered a cosmetic um option is almost a standard treatment plan was in weight loss patients, but that is, you know, at that point it can present as another like medical issue, but it was more common for them to provide them with informed consent about um the risk factors associated with having the procedure and then having the reconstruction afterwards, which that never happened within breast cancer patients. So you're just never informed of what can happen from the reconstructive process. It's almost like the standard treatment plan is, you know, chemoradiation, some other form, you know, of breast removal or whatever, and then it's reconstruction. Like the other piece of options is not presented as part of a standard, um, almost informed consent process in most practices. Isn't that just astounding? And I think it's so sad that that's what you experience.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Well, but sadly, not surprised because I had never heard it until we, you know, got Erica to come on. I I had never even heard that this was a thing that you could go flat. And I've known several women that have had breast cancer. My grandmother had breast cancer. She didn't reconstruct the one breast that she had removed. Um, she wore like a prosthetic bra just for that one side. But, you know, same thing. Like when you were talking about that Patriots coach, like I think about her, and she, when her cancer did return, she said, I wonder if I would have had them both removed if if this would have never come back. You know, she she always had that sort of like thought in the back of her head. Think about it.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

I mean, with an aesthetic plant closure, they remove all the breast tissue and the extra skin. Yeah. When you choose to reconstruct, they get as much as they can, but they have to leave what they can for those expanders to go in and for the skin to take that in. So there is a higher risk with that, personally, in my mind. Now, granted, I don't think it's presented that way whatsoever, but scientific, I mean, science just is like no brainer, like, okay, well, if they miss, it might, which that's why they offer radiation to kill all the microscopic cells that might be missed. But I just you run more risk. And it's just a really it's a sad setup in is it Spain or Italy? Italy. Italy. They are automatically if immediately they think immediate, I mean, immediate reconstruction is a part of their treatment plan. So like they experience a big, big pushback from their surgeons there. Now, women, if they experience complications with reconstruction, they can opt to go flat and not redo the process. Um but they experience like horrible resistance and pushback if they mention it at first. And in the UK, even if you want to remove a healthy breast for symmetry after losing one to breast cancer, they refer you to seek, you know, many are asked to seek psychological counseling first, just in order to remove the healthy breasts. And only 33% of patients there are, you know, even informed about going fully flat, taking both at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

So I didn't even think about the international aspect of it, but I'm sure you're in these groups where you see women from all over the world. Is there a country? I'm just curious, is there a country that is um like promotes this as an option more so than the US, even as as bare minimum as it is?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Australia is very very open to going flat. Yes. Interesting. In fact, there was a study um that came out of there where they spoke to hundreds, hundreds, if not thousands, maybe women who had gone flat, and 92% uh reported satisfaction rates with you know their choice of going flat. So um and then here in the US, there was a study where um done in 2021, 75% of women reported satisfaction with their choice of going flat and their quality of life. Many women are steered away from going flat because they are pressured into thinking that their quality of life is going to suffer immensely from not having breasts. I guess you know, our whole purpose here on earth is just to have these breasts.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Right, right. Yeah, we have women do getting breast reductions all the time, right? Like constantly. You hear about that. And I've heard I've heard of people taking, you know, having implants like um taken out because of a lot of these health issues. They couldn't figure out what was going on. They had tried like sleep issues. I know one girl that was having a ton of sleep issues, and she ended up having her breasts removed after trying like several other things, right? That didn't that

Style After Mastectomy And Free Guides

SPEAKER_01 34:45

didn't work. What I love that you've done though is you took this and you sort of married it with what you already knew, which was fashion and beauty. You were like, I, you know, I don't think you probably you probably didn't think one day you're like, oh, I'm gonna be the spokesperson for this. It just sort of morphed into that. I, you know, of course, started following you after we met you. And I just love how when you are presenting fashion, you're like, this is a great dress, and this is a great dress for flat-chested women too. Like it it doesn't have to be something special, like there it, you know, there's fashion everywhere. There's um it and it's just tailoring it to our bodies, just like we do for somebody that's five, two and is never gonna be real thin, right? You're not gonna see me in certain things. Um I love how you make it so applicable, even if you're not completely flat, you know, just maybe you have small breasts to begin with. You're like, this is great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I I have a ton of free downloadable guides on my website. Uh, and one is specifically a style guide for women who have gone flat to help, you know, them navigate their new bodies in dressing. Because, you know, I I would say it took me a full year to go through all the seasons to understand my new body.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

And I think over the years too, I think I've become more comfortable in things that I wasn't at first. But and then you get to the point where it's just like there's a level of true freedom in that choice. Like going against the pressure of society to look a certain way and knowing that you did the right thing for the health of your body. And so then sometimes I'm like, I want to address to prov like, yeah, I'm flat. Like, uh, I did what I needed for me and for my longevity here while on Earth, because it's a short time while we are here.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

We're

Part Two Tease And How To Help

SPEAKER_00 36:50

gonna put a pen in it right there. Tune in to the next episode of the Lilas Podcast as we go in depth with Erica about her journey with breast cancer, finding ways to empower herself as well as peace and inner beauty. How does she do it all? Tune in. Give us a follow, and make sure you share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Listen in, Lilas.