Parenting With Pride with Special Guest, Author Heather Hester

Your child tells you something that changes everything, and your first reaction might surprise you. Heather Hester joins us to talk about what it actually feels like when a teen comes out, especially when that moment collides with bullying, mental health struggles, substance use, and the terrifying job of keeping your kid safe while trying to keep your family standing.

Heather shares how her family moved from confusion and isolation to real support by facing bias head-on and refusing to let shame drive the conversation. We dig into the hidden layers many parents don’t expect: grieving the future you assumed, learning to repair after you misspeak, and understanding why it’s not your child’s job to educate you. We also talk about therapy as a lifeline for parents and siblings, and why doing your own work makes it easier to show up with steadiness when your child is overwhelmed.

We get practical about the stuff you might be Googling at 2 a.m.: how to decide who gets told, how to protect your child’s privacy with extended family, how to handle the attention imbalance between siblings, and what it can look like years later when your child finds their people and you can finally exhale. 

If you’re looking for parenting support, LGBTQ family resources, and a clear path toward more honest connection, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share with a parent who needs it, and leave a review so more families can find this kind of help.

Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com

Transcript

Meet Heather Hester’s Story

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Welcome to Lilas. We are back this week with another amazing guest because we're trying to hit all the topics that you all have wrote in requesting. And today is going to be a really great conversation. Heather Hester is our guest today. She's a speaker, author, and advocate. She's creator and host of the award-winning More Human, More Kind podcast and author of Parenting with Pride, Unlearned Bias, Embrace Your Child, Empower their Authenticity. Her work centers around meeting people exactly where they are and guiding them through those moments that feel the most complex. And she brings a steady, calm presence that helps families and communities navigate uh with a little bit more ease. And we could all use a little more Heather in our life. So welcome, Heather, to the Lila Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Tell us kind of your backstory. How did you get started in this work? Oh my goodness, yes, absolutely. So I the short answer is in my child. The the long answer is um I about 10 years ago, um, when my kids were approximately 16, 13, 11, and nine, um, my oldest came out as gay. And um we had no idea. And he came out in rather dramatic fashion and um and then proceeded to uh really struggle and went through everything from mental health struggles to substance use struggles to dealing with difficult relationships and bullying at school, to um searching for information in very unsafe places. I mean, you you name it, it happened. And um it opened up our eyes to so many things so quickly. And you know, as as parents, you know, you're kind of always on that like learning the next thing. Like you finally get something mastered, and then your kid throws something new at you, and you're like, nothing, right? It was like that on steroids for like 18 months, right? We were both, my husband and I are just like, we can't keep up. Like we would finally be like, Okay, I understand. And then he'd be like, Well, what do you think about this one? And um so once he, you know, we got him to a space where you know he was well supported, where he was feeling better, where we were feeling like we kind of understood better, where we felt like we were still present for our other kids, which is really hard as well. Um, this was really insane and and uh difficult and scary and um just asked so much of each one of us, not just of us as parents, but of our kids. And I just thought, you know what, there's there's gotta be something better out there for support, for intervention. Um, and you know, we struggled so much to find what we needed. There are amazing national resources like PFLAG, um, like the Trevor Project, with which I lean upon all the time and I recommend all the time because they just consistently have such good, not only support for specifically LGBTQ kids, but they also are incredible with their research and their information and their resources for parents and kids. But as far as feeling we felt so isolated and we felt like it was really hard to find that information and kind of drill down into like what do we need? And then how do we take those next steps? Like, okay, I understand what it means for my kid to be gay. Um, I I don't necessarily understand the support he needs when he's presenting with this, this, and this, or is asking these specific questions. I don't know the answer to these questions. Where do I find the information? So it was those types of things that I was like, yeah. I we need to have this. So I just started creating things. And it was very much, you know, initially just came from a place of like, we've been through it. I know there have to be like thousands and thousands of other parents out there who are coming from all different places, but all in the same boat, right? And um, so it kind of just started from this very organic place of like, here's one place with a bunch of great resources. And by the way, I'm a writer, so I write stuff. So right. So it's just kind of like, here are my thoughts on on all the stuff that's been happening in very, in a very real and messy way. And um people kind of I was surprised that people really liked it. Like I started hearing from people and I was like, oh, this is actually good, like this this is helpful. So then I started the podcast because I thought, well, this is a good way to reach more people. And as you both know, a podcast is the most amazing thing in the world, but it's also a ton of work. Especially if you're trying to like create consistently good content and be consistent and you know, do all of those things. Like, there's a lot of background work that goes into that. And um, but I I fell in love with doing it, and all along the way I was like learning. Of course, my kids were growing. Yeah. I myself was changing in ways that and evolving in ways that I would never have imagined I would. Um, asking questions about things that I didn't even know existed, you know, three years prior. Um, you know, regularly watching RuPaul's drag race. I mean, you know, like all the things. And um and it just even with all of the ups and downs and all of the really difficult, really scary moments, it was also equally as magical. Like the the way our relationships uh began to shift. And of course the kids were all getting older too, but as like the just kind of like the authenticity that started to come from that, and you know, some of it was because my husband and I were being way more authentic, right? And messy, um, which allowed them to be that way as well. Um, but also just being able to be so much more curious about not just them and what was going on in their lives, but like the greater world. And of course, this, you know, coincided with the way that our world has moved in the past 10 years in lots of interesting directions. And so it's just been quite spectacular. But there, there's the long answer of how I got into what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Yeah, I think I mean I can completely relate in that our kids are our greatest teachers. And um, you know, I just I'm listening to you. And I the first thing that popped in my head, you know, we're from West Virginia, where, you know, we grew up with two, two of our best friends ended up coming out in college. And I would say we knew as their friends, but like it was not known, you know, it was never mentioned or talked about or anything like that. And I feel like, you know, I had a pretty unbiased um view of of gay. And uh it just it is interesting now being a parent, like I've always felt like, you know, I've had lots of friends who are gay. I've worked in schools, obviously worked with kids that are um, you know, transgender. I've got friends now who have I have two close friends who have two um transgender children. And, you know, it does make me wonder if when it's your child and they come out, if you had to then start to really look to say, do I have some bias still going on internally? Is that something that you went through with that initial coming out?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Oh my gosh, a thousand percent. Yes. Well, I um so I grew up in Ohio. Um, and but I think more than that, I I grew up in a very conservative um, I say evangelical because it's like the easiest way to describe it. My grandfather was a Church of God minister. Like it was a very you know a pretty strict upbringing. And so there were a lot of things that um, you know, I married I when I married my husband, he was Catholic. And you might have thought that I mean, that was like just insane that I was marrying somebody Catholic. So that was like the first crazy thing I did. But then um, you know, as we started having kids, like, you know, we were pretty intentional about like the way that we were kind of moving, like this doesn't work for us as a family. We are going to like,

Unlearning Bias After Coming Out

SPEAKER_01 9:38

so there was a lot of there were a lot of things that we had already kind of just decided we're doing differently.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

When Connor came out, I will tell you both that in that first conversation when he told us, my first thought was, there's no way that my kid's going to hell. And I need to figure out the why that I feel that so strongly. And I was like, and you know, as time has gone by, I'm like, how weird was that? That was my first thought, right? But I also realized like that was something that was so deeply ingrained in me, right? Absolutely. Like that was a bias that I still had in there that popped up, but it popped up in a way that I was like, well, that's not true. But I need to figure out why it's not true. Like and and where did it come from that I thought, you know, way deep inside that's just been in there, like bumping around, right? And so there were things like that that, you know, would come up, and it's super uncomfortable when you realize, and I say this, you know, that was one of the reasons I used that word specifically bias in my book, because I feel like it's really important to normalize that we all have biases, right? It's not something that's like a judgment call. It's not saying, well, you know, you're so biased. It's we all have them. It depending on right, like so many different factors that go into that. So I think it's really important to like first acknowledge that, but then be able to say, okay, so these are my, these are the things that are popping up. These are my biases.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Why are they there? And and do I still like relate to them in any way? And if not, like how do I begin to like just process through them and let them go and just be kind, you know, like continue to like realign yourself with your true value system, right? And how you're growing and how you're evolving. Yeah, I think that's a really I'm glad you brought that up because that's a that is an important piece. And I I also think it's important to share that because I I know that so many people come from that type of background who are super worried. And and also, you know, there's like shame that comes along with that. And I just like it's a piece of like taking out that shame piece. Yeah.

unknown 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Absolutely. I can vividly remember my son was maybe four years old. We were downtown on King Street. We had run, you know, to a shop or something, and we were walking, and there were two men in front of us holding hands. And we got back to the car. We walked all the way down King Street uh behind them. I didn't even think about it, honestly, didn't even notice it. And we got back to the car and my son said on the way home, he says, Um, mommy, do boys marry boys? And in that moment, I had to really check myself. Um, because while I thought, you know, I went to this liberal art college and I, you know, like I said, had several friends and colleagues at this point that I, you know, lots of interaction. And um I still had this innate, do I tell my four-year-old, do I do we go there? Do we talk about sex and things, you know, like obviously we weren't gonna have that conversation, but I he has always been a little bit ahead in like his in terms of his thinking. And I knew what questions were gonna follow, right? And um, and so I just remember almost feeling bad that I even had that like response of like, I don't want to answer this to my four-year-old. Um, but then I have, like I said, I have two close friends who have had um their children come out as transgender, separate friends, each have one. And um, you know, they talked to me, we've talked about this, and they say, I had to grieve, you know, what I thought I wanted for my kid. Like they, they were even like kind of admitting that they had those moments. And that's where I, you know, that's kind of where that question came from of like, no matter what we think, how accepting we are, how we see the world and how we see other people, there are these deep-rooted biases in in inside of us that really when you're faced with your child, right? Asking these questions or coming out, it it's uh, you know, you know, you might have these thoughts or or really have to, like you say, kind of go inward and do some work on yourself of like, well, why did that bother me that he asked that question? Or why did I have a hard time answering that question? You know, love is love. I think that's what I said. Yeah, boys marry boys, girls marry girls, love is love. I think is probably how I ended that. And then whoop, on to the next thing. But it's so much more than that, right? It's so much more than that. Um, and so I just I think that just acknowledging that parents, even if you're okay with your child, you know, let's say that you are, you know, okay and and you no matter what, you're gonna love your kid, it's still okay to have that moment of, you know, right. And then work and acknowledge you need to work through that. Does that make sense? Or did I just Oh my gosh, yes, a thousand percent it does.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

And I think that's, you know, we're complex, we're complex creatures, right? So I think there is, you're not gonna ever be like a hundred percent totally one way. There are always going to be things that kind of pop up that that um you know ask you to be reflective or have some self-awareness or uh, you know, kind of wonder like where where did that come from and and not like tear yourself to pieces for it, um, but instead like like be have some grace for yourself. And um I do want to say that I think that you did hit on something that is really, really important also, which is that grief factor. Um that is something that really surprised me. And um, and I know that in in a lot of ways it's even more intense for a parent of a transgender child, um, which even though like all the letters are smushed together, like it's having a child change their identity and having a child change what you're in in your brain, right? Change in your brain, their sexual orientation are two very, very different things. And um, great point. So I think that first there's that, but then also it is super important in order for you to move forward as the parent of this child who needs your love and support, to be able to say, okay, this is what I created in my brain. This is what I just either, you know, actually created or just kind of assumed would happen, and and be able to say, okay, that's like that's gone. I need to be sad about that. I need to acknowledge that and be sad about it and let it go. Because your kids going through the same thing, right? Like they have all their stuff that they're like, because none of them choose this, right? Right. So they are then realizing like all these things that I was brought up kind of subconsciously to believe.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

In order for me to actually be my authentic self, I have to let go of all of that too. Yeah. So you being able to grieve that and and talk about that process of grief allows them to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, I think that's a great acknowledgement. I worked as a clinical psychologist for many years and um recognizing that that child is also going through not just a transformational process, but a grieving process on top of that, I think is just so important for us to have that acknowledgement and understanding because now they are in that position to reform, rethink, to become. And I mean, you're really forcing a whole lot of things into one time period that's so critical. And so our response to it, you know, is going to be one that takes a lot of mindfulness and reflection because we're going through our own process at that same time. And so then supporting our kid through that process at that time too is just, especially if they're in the teenage years, that has just got to be such an amazing task.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

It is. I I it definitely is. And I think that's why it's, you know, so important that we have conversations like

Therapy And Doing Your Own Work

SPEAKER_01 18:36

this, um, because none of us is gonna do it perfectly all right. Um, and and so being able to just have this information readily available, to have this validation of where you are available, um, to to say, okay, I need a redo because oops, I'd really messed that up. Um, but to have that knowledge that, oh, wait, I can go back and I can acknowledge that I really messed that up. I'd like to redo that. I I really want to, you know, have that kind of back and forth. Like it, it, it offers this opportunity for um such growth in how you communicate with your child. Um it's it's I just think it's really spectacular. And that's really spectacular.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

I think also, too, you know, I'm thinking about my my friends who, and I I'm glad you made that distinction because someone changing their identity versus you know, someone, you know, coming out and saying, I, you know, I love this person or that. Um, it is it is different, right? Those are two kind of different processes. And I'm thinking about the moms in my sample size of two here that I'm drawing from. Um, but you know, in in these cases, their children are also going through mental health issues, which I think you mentioned that your son also went through. And so they're kind of navigating and trying to find the right supports for their children. And then they're kind of out there just sort of floundering, just sort of like trying to figure it all out. Was there one place that you found? I know you sort of started this resources for parents, but can you tell us, like, did you ever seek any kind of therapy for yourself or your husband to support you all going through this? Because it's hard. I don't care what your child's going through, it's hard for any parent to watch their kids struggle with anything. And so I'm just curious if you were like, no, I need help.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yes. I, you know, you know how things happen in your life that you just think later, gosh, that's extraordinary that that happened then because I don't know what I would have done otherwise. Right. I had happened to through a friend and a workshop and all found a therapist about two years before Connor came out. Now, I again I grew up and I was kind of always taught, so to speak, that you know, therapy was for weak people and you know, nobody does therapy. That's crazy. You just talk to your friends about it or your mom or you know, all the things you both are. Or pray it away. Exactly. Pray it away. Yes. Yes. Right. And so this, but this friend had like kind of brought it to me as like you, um, I was really str shockingly struggling with boundaries. And um, she's like, This friend is doing this really cool workshop. I think you would find it interesting. And I went to this workshop and I sat there the whole time thinking, I'm allowed to do this. This is kind of amazing. And I mean, truthfully. And I was way too old to not know this information. And so I um this woman who had the workshop was a therapist. And I was like, I need to talk to you more about this. She has been my therapist for 11 years. And I literally, I mean, there are times where I'm like, I cannot tell you how grateful I am for you because she like, boy, did she have her work cut out for her. But by the time Connor came out, I had been with her for two years. So I had started to do this work that I needed to do. And she was able to be a support in a way that she could suggest things that I would never have kind of come to on my own, um, as far as like where to find support for Connor and where to find support for our family, where to find support for my other kids who were like, what's going on? Right. Yeah. Um, because you know, having smaller children, like there was like the whole gamut of information, you know, ways that we were able to share like age appropriately with them. And so it was just a lot of stuff. But um, yes, we fully embraced therapy, and and everybody in my family now has their own therapist. Like we are, I am a huge proponent of therapy. I'm also a huge proponent of the parent doing their own work. It is not your child's job to teach you, inform you, guide you, help you heal. It is your job. And so um I I firmly, firmly believe in that. So find your child a their own therapist or their own support group, or you know, vice versa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

And I don't mean that to sound like you need therapy to help you get over the fact that your child is coming out. I mean it so I just wanted to make that clear. It's solely for like watching your child go through a mental health issue or struggle, like that, that has impact on us specifically as moms. I feel like we kind of internalize anything our kids go through, right? Somebody calls my kid a name, I'm gonna dislike that kid for the rest of his life, right? Like I did we just do. We're natural mama bears.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Well, and I think there's certain okay, there are certain things like that, which there's no amount of therapy that's gonna make you not think that. Right. Right, right. Or a mama bear, right? There are just certain certain things where you're like, that's where I'm drawing the line. And if if somebody is mean to my kid, then um I am not a fan of yours. Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Right. I mean, I just want to validate that feeling. Wrong or right, I don't know. I I'm cut from the same class.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

So I always admire people who are like, well, they're children, Heather, and they don't know what they're doing. I'm like, yes, and they learn it somewhere. And and um, it's not okay. That doesn't make it okay, right? It's it's kind of the same as, you know, if you have a a narcissist or another, you know, kind of personality disordered person in your life. Um just because they have that doesn't make their behavior okay. Okay, nor does it make it that you shouldn't hold them accountable for said behavior.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Right. Right. Exactly. So, yeah.

Protecting Marriage During Crisis

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Whenever you're talking about this, there are two things that really stand out to me. One, um, I just find it a beautiful situation that your son felt that he could come out to you, especially as a teenager. I think that that says a lot about your all's foundation as a family, your relationship. Um, he must have felt safe at a very special level in order to do that. Because I know so many kids, again, many that I worked with, were like, I can't do this while I'm in my home. I don't know what will happen to me. We just have to wait till I'm, you know, we had a survival plan until they got 18 and into college or whatnot. So huge kudos on creating that home environment where he felt safe within that. But then for you and your husband, too, just as partners to navigate this whole situation with your other kids, how did you guys kind of pull through and come up with like a plan to make this, you know, all work for everybody in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

That is a great, great question. Um so we, you know, kind of initially, we have always been good partners. So I think that we were very lucky that we're at kind of the base of everything. We're really, really good friends. I also feel particularly he is a very confident, strong man who it does not need to um, he did not fall into like kind of the typical like my my boy has to be a boy and I have to be in charge.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

And like he didn't have to be validated by his kid's sexuality.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Right. Almost correct. I mean, I mean, there are funny stories that that happened along the way that we still laugh about, like things that he said that I will just share one. He like right soon after Connor came out, he was just so perplexed. Cause and he was just like, you know, we had gotten through like the initial part, and he's like, I just don't understand it because he has terrible fashion sense.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

He's also 16.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

I mean, like, just like genuinely was like, but I don't understand it. And I'm like, yeah, that is a myth. Right, right. So stereotype.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

There's very funny things.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

We did um kind of the deeper answer to that question is as things became more difficult and more challenging in those first, you know, six, twelve, eighteen months, and we were dealing with a lot of really scary and um difficult subject matter. We actually met at one point with an educational consultant um because we had to make some some pretty quick decisions for Connor's safety. And this woman, she met with Connor first, and then she met with us, and she sat down and she she looks at me and she says, I just want you to know that your relationship with your son is never going to be the same. He hates you. And I was like, Okay, cool. Like, I'm already crying all the time. Like, it's just like awesome. I was kind of like, this is an interesting way to approach this, but okay, we'll hear you out, right? Like, we're desperate to help this kid. So we're gonna do this. So then she looks at both of us and she was like, and in situations like this, more often than not, the couples get divorced. And I was like, well, I mean, two. Needless to say, like, we did not work with her for very long. We got what we needed and we moved on. But I think my husband and I tell that story always because we were kind of like, well, what do you know? Like, we're we're gonna stay married no matter what it costs now, right? Like, whatever it takes, not even costs, but like whatever we need to do, we are going to communicate better, we are going to work harder, we are going to do what we need to do to make this marriage work and to make sure our all of our kids are okay, not just Connor, but like continually like checking in with the others. And, you know, the the two youngest ones for the longest time, we called the littles. And so they kind of collectively got the same amount of no information. You know, Connor's not feeling well, Connor's having a hard time. Connor had to go away because you know, he wasn't feeling great. Like, like literally, now as they are older, they're still learning things that happen, and they'll be like, I can't believe you didn't tell us that. And I'm like, Really? You were nine. You can't believe I didn't tell you.

unknown 30:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Right, right. Here we are. Um, but yes, I mean it was it came from it was just hard and just saying, okay, we're we we have to make this work. We're not, that's not an option.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

I think that's I appreciate you sharing. Yeah, and just sharing how dark, let's say, that it got for a while, because I like I said again, just people that I know, very similar situations. I mean, some really scary stuff when it comes to safety. And I think I know people that needed to hear that, that um, that they're not alone in that, and that that you did get through it, and even like that he hates you. Like, that's also something that I've heard friends say that their children have said to them, and they're like, I'm literally doing everything under the sun to support them, and they hate me, you know? And so, like, how did you work through that if you don't mind sharing?

Intensive Care And The Road Back

SPEAKER_01 31:21

No. Um he actually went to so he he did go away for a while. We had to get him. He was it was a safety risk him being here because of some things that were going on. So he did um, he was in California for a couple of months at an intensive mental health facility, and and it was substance use mental health, both pieces there. And then we were able to move him to a therapeutic boarding school in North Carolina after that. And um, he when he was in California, he we were out there every weekend, which you know, there's another piece of this that that I also feel is really important to talk about, which is we were able to do that. Yeah, which right? Like we were so lucky that a privilege because so many people can't. And sorry. And I just think so. I'm uh very aware of that and very grateful of that always, like grateful for the fact that we could do that, that we could get him that intense of help that he needed, so that the time that he spent in that space of substance use and abuse, of like intense mental health dark darkness was shorter. And he was able to learn, you know, tools and strategies and about himself in a way that was safe and healthy and and again, faster, right? Um, but in that process, he didn't speak to me for two and a half months. And that was so, so hard because we'd get on these calls with therapist each week, and she'd be like, Well, Connor's not coming because he doesn't want to talk to you and he's very angry. And and he, and and you know, and their job was to advocate for Connor, right? Like that's part of their job. And so it was very difficult to sit through some of those sessions and have them, you know, hold up a mirror and be like, Well, what do you think about this? And this is what he's saying, this is what he's processing through right now. How does that feel to hear that? Or do you have any insight on that? And um, so I think that for us too, that really helped us grow in ways like probably a lot faster than we may have otherwise. Um, and then now, I mean, I will just say obviously one of the reasons I do talk about this so much is because of where we are now, right? And that, and that he, you know, he and I actually have a second child who has since come out as well. So that they are both and all four of my kids and all of us as a family, like it has changed our relationships and the authenticity of those relationships in a way that had we stayed status quo, we never would have. So yeah. Yeah. So hard. Anybody that is going through that, just know that it's not forever. It it's so hard, it's so painful. Cry, you know, do do what, do whatever you need to do. There's nothing wrong with you for doing that. It's just you will get to the other side.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

That's so helpful. I know. Um, I'm gonna see somebody today. I can't wait to share that little bit. Um, because I know people need to hear that, right? And and like you said, you had four kids and he was the oldest. And so, you know, did your other kids ever get kind of frustrated? You know, they may not have known while he was, you know, away, or that they I I feel like, and I might correct me if I'm wrong, but other kids see it as they get all the attention, right? They're getting all of mom and dad's attention, all their resources, and they're just kind of did your kids ever feel that way when when you were in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

I think that um my next one did, so my second oldest, she really caught the brunt of it. The the younger, the littles, um, were young enough, and I'm I don't want to say easy and like they were easy, but it was easier to um give them the attention that they needed and keep them kind of going in the ways that they needed to be, if that makes sense, than her, where she was, you know, 13, 14, 15. So she was like at that just tough adolescent, preteen teenager ages, where um she just knew so much more. He had shared a lot with her, like things that he never should have shared with her. So she had all of this information that she was having a tough time processing, um, that you know, and she also just is a very bright and aware human being. And so she just could see things, right? And she had no problem calling me out on what she was seeing and and where she was angry. And um, anybody who has a has had a teen girl just knows that they'd in general have no problem calling you out on things. And so it was just tough timing.

Siblings And The Attention Imbalance

SPEAKER_01 36:34

But yeah, she definitely was the one that was like, hey, what about me, guys? Yeah, what about me?

unknown 36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I do wonder too, whenever um how would you tell us to navigate this process? Because as a parent, you do want to protect your kids. Your you have your nuclear family, you know, all the ones living within that house, but then you have your extended family too. And so how do you go about then like having these types of conversations just to make sure your child's protected? My upbringing, despite being from West Virginia, we were a hundred percent. I didn't, if you had a my uncle was gay, our whole family embraced the entire culture of it. I think I said beforehand, like I learned how to do my hair and makeup poorly. Um, but from like drag queens and being in New York. And so it was nothing like any, I mean, I can do it really good for that stuff, for daily stuff, not so much. Um but it was just a very like normal thing, but you know, different, like my husband's family, not so much. I don't know that that, you know, would be embraced. And so I know that my if I hell, I wouldn't have to tell my family, I'd just be like, well, Cameron's boyfriend, and then be like, okay, and then we just move on about our day, you know. But I know that that would be a different level of a conversation I would have to have with other potential family members. So, how did you make sure that that was happening, I guess, in a safe and kind of protective way?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, that's such a great and important question. Um, you know, I always think about this in the in the way of uh there are things that you do, like we did initially, that I was like, oh, I'd like a, I really would like a redo on that. And there are other things that I'm like, gosh, I kind of knocked that out of the park and I don't know how I knew to do that. But that is one that we like right away with Connor, we were like, hey, you know, who have you told? Who do you want to know this information? Who don't you want to know this information? And from the very beginning, it was very much like he guided it. And um, and people that he wanted to tell that he was like nervous to tell, you know, we would do it with him. Um, and we kind of had the full game. Like my husband, we were kind of the flip. Like my husband's family was very much like awesome. Like, actually, Chris, when we had to, when he had to go to California, we had and we sat down with my husband's parents and we were like, this is what's going on. It's you know, like really scary, and we just wanted you to know. And my father-in-law was like, You're not sending him to one of those conversion camps, are you? And we were like, Oh my gosh, no. But like the fact that he was so worried and it was so sweet. And I was like, I God love you. Like, that is so sweet. And um my parents, my family of origin were very different. And um Connor did not want to tell them. In fact, he he did not tell them for about a year and a half, and um, and finally when he did decide he was ready, uh, we did it on the phone. I was on the phone with him. Um, it was kind of a group project. And um, and you know, they they responded in a way that I thought they probably would, which, you know, uh, we don't agree with your choices, but we love you, right?

Telling Family And Controlling The News

SPEAKER_01 40:08

And you know, my dad told them to make sure he gets that AIDS vaccine. And I was just like, oh, okay. And but thankfully at that point, you know, Connor was just like grounded enough and knew, right? Like they know their grandparents, they see things that we don't even see, right? And um, you know, my brother was similarly uh not great. Um and my sister-in-law was amazing, right? And so um uh it the people like surprise you in in their responses too. But you know, overall it was it was a great, we kind of just always approached, who do you want to tell? How do you want to tell them whenever you're ready, there's no pressure. Um, and when it came to like people do ask this too, like when it came to our friends, um we always ran it by him first, you know, is it okay if we tell so-and-so? Or if you're if not, then we didn't, right? If yeah and and then it was kind of funny to like learn who of his friends had known and for how long, and and just like really cute and sweet stories in that way, too. So um, you know, he did have a couple of people um who from the beginning were super supportive and and those are the people that he still like stays in touch with now, like you know, 10 years later that he's still so it's it's sweet. Um and super grateful for that.

SPEAKER_04 41:38

So so now he's a grown adult, right? You said it's been about 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

He is, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

So give us for the parents that are just starting this, right? Maybe they just found out or they're working through those really dark, scary times that you all experience. Tell us what what it's like on the other side. Tell us how he's doing and just how your relationship has changed and and blossomed from the beginning stages.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

My gosh, absolutely. Yes. Well, it is um, we have a very fun relationship. He he lives in New York City. He uh moved, he went there to college. So he's been essentially out there since you know he was 19. Um and he loves it. And it's one of those, you know, as as you both know with your I was people always like, aren't you afraid that your son is in New York? I'm like, no, like he's so safe there. Like he can walk around however he wants there. Like he is embraced and love, right? So it is it has been such a cool thing, um, you know, as his mom and all the things to kind of watch him um grow and develop in a space where he feels like very where he's found his people. Like it took a long time for him to find his people, but once he did, oh my gosh, that's so amazing. And um and just over all of this time, we've just I think once he kind of got through that initial part, and once I started doing this work, like he's been so supportive since the very beginning. People always ask, like, is he okay with you talking about this? Like, well, right, I would not talk about it if you were right. Um, but he's so he's been like a really integral part of everything that I've done as a you know, advocate, and you know, every piece of that book that I wrote he was part of. You know, he's been on the podcast like three or four times. That in and of itself has been entertaining because you've been able to like hear him grow and change. Yeah. But he, you know, it went from not telling me anything to telling me everything. And so we talk once a week and I I hear all the things.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Sometimes I'm like, that's way more information than I needed, but okay. Um just be safe. And And uh make good choices.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Uh all the things. Um yeah, it's good. And it's just really fun to see him like be him, right? Like figure out who he is and and who he wants to be in this world and um and share those discoveries with me as he comes comes across them. And just for me to like be and it's you know, it takes a lot of it's just continual practice and learning, but to be able to just hold that space for him and just know that you know my job as his mom is just to hold space for him at this point. Like it's not even my job to keep him safe anymore, which you know, right that's pretty much out of my hands. Like all I can do is like love him and support him, right? So I think that that's been such a gift.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Gosh, it's such a beautiful thing to say. I don't know. I get teary whenever I hear you say it because it is, it's just such a an amazing gift to be able to see it on the other side, especially through you know, dark valleys or hardships or the late nights, the what-ifs, all of those things. And then to be at this space where you can just take a deep, nice exhale breath and feel the freedom that comes from being here now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

That's great. It yes, yes. And I will just say too, like, I I do notice there are things that there are things that will never ever go away, right? Like all of that becomes like woven into the fabric of who you are as a human being. And so now my youngest is a senior in high school, and um, I know a lot of things. And so he he thinks he can get away with stuff. And I'm like, you forget who your brother is, right? Like you forget what I have seen and been through. Like you have no chance. I also'm like instantly, yeah. There's like pros and cons to this, right? Because I don't freak out about everything anymore, but I also am like on to you. Um and like, don't think you can pull the wool over my eyes, my friend. Like, it's just you know, they're so dumb in their 18.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

I mean, and you're a seasoned pro at this point.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

So, but it is fun because I'll like pull the older kids in to, you know, I'll call Connor and I'll be like, I need for you to talk to your brother. And can you handle this for me? Because I'm tired.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

I'm tired.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

I'm tough enough. So, where did your advocacy work go now? Like seeing where things are at, knowing you have two children, where where does your heart lie within advocacy at this point?

SPEAKER_01 46:52

I um well, I still feel very strongly and like the you know, kind of coming out 101, right? Like that that just giving voice to that, and I think it's in I still feel like there isn't still isn't enough positive visibility and the positive like those voices and that information is still getting out for a lot of different reasons. Um, but I also you know, having older kids and having gone through lots of this, there are there are really specific pieces that um I do, I think I'm kind of shifting into and wanting to talk more about. And and it is a little bit more about like the darker things, right? Like the things that um that I was just really surprised by and didn't know about and felt like I was kind of clamoring to like figure out in real time. And uh things that I would I'd love for parents to kind of just know or to be able to easily access information on what to do. Um or just what to look for, right? Like I was just talking with a friend um the other day who she does documentary films, and um she just was a consultant on a film that was made. This woman made this film about um uh sexual assault within the theater community, specifically and even more specifically within same-sex relationships. And it was like, I mean, it's really dialed in, but it's something that is so real and prevalent that isn't talked about, right? So I was like, this is such an important thing to amplify, to have conversations

Life On The Other Side

SPEAKER_01 48:47

about in a way that, you know, not everything is a five-alon bar that you should like run around and be afraid of because that's just wasting your energy. Like, just have these kind of conversations where we say, like, here are things to look out for, here are things to be aware of. And and should you find yourself in a situation where um your child is asking these questions, or your child is of this age and you know that they're curious, but they're not gonna ever ask you about this because you're their mom and you're the last person they want to learn about this stuff from. Right. Here's where you go, right? Like here's where you can find helpful information, right? I from my daughter when she came out, um, it was a very different experience, not surprisingly, but one of the things I did because still I don't know anything about lesbian relationships any more than I knew about gay relationships and and how to answer questions about sex or just being in a relationship with, right? And so I was like, Well, there's gotta be books, right? Right. And so just like started buying these books, and I'd like bring her a book, and I'd be like, here, because I don't know what to tell you, but this book is really interesting. I read it and she'd be like, You've read this, mom. Like I wanted to make sure it was actually good information. Yeah, I checked it out with my lesbian friends and they said it was, and she's like, Oh my gosh, this is so weird.

unknown 50:19

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

But I think too, when you can be like, not so like, oh, this is so uncomfortable, because of course it's uncomfortable, but like you can kind of approach it, approach it in a way of like, listen, like this is real, like this is life.

SPEAKER_04 50:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

And you really, I love your approach and or just the way you're saying, like, I may not know, but I'm I'm gonna learn, right? Um, and and that's the biggest thing, is that we don't always have to have all the answers, not immediately. And that it's okay to be like, you know what, I don't have the answer, but I will do some research and get back to you, or I'll let's research this together, as awkward as that could be. But I think it's also like it's it's more than just like sexuality or you know, insert anything that your child does that you didn't plan for or see or expect, whatever expectations we put on our kids, right? I mean, even like I'm gonna use a very generic example, but like wanting them to like sports. How many of us parents are like, oh, you know, especially dads? Oh, I want them to be into sports. They're just not into sports, right? They're gamers or they're hunting, they want to hunt and fish, they're not into watching football. And we have all these expectations, right? That we layer on our kids. And then it's like we get our feelings hurt if if it doesn't come to fruition. And I think, you know, we could all learn from that, and that anytime we put those expectations on anybody, you know, you're setting yourself up for these feelings when really like our job as their parent is just to give them love, shelter, food, you know, some social skills. And, you know, and then it's up to them to become who they are in this world. And that's a I'm saying this to myself as a reminder not to put those expectations on our kids constantly, especially when they're little and or teenagers, when they're just they don't know who they are, they're just figuring it out. Hell, I'm 43, I'm still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Right. Oh my gosh, yes. Well, and I think too, like we do that because in in a lot of cases, that was how we grew up, right? Like, yeah, and so there are things that we just don't do without even like thinking about it. We don't do it with like an ulterior motive or a bad motive. It's just, well, this is how we learned how to parent. And so I think kind of to your point, like, well, we have the opportunity to make different choices and to parent differently and to say, well, this actually feels better approaching parenting or a parent, you know, parenting this specific child in this way. And um I think it is it it's just a and one of those things we we just need to take the pressure off of ourselves to to be you know perfect, whatever that perfection in your brain means, yeah, it's not real. Like nobody can attain whatever that is. So I I think, you know, one of the things that I I will just say some more thing about this because I've thought about this a lot recently for some reason, about how um the way that I grew up, and I think a lot of people, you know, I'm a little bit older than you, um, was that the parents kind of approached us as clumps of clay to be molded, right? And the way that they wanted to mold us. And um, and and so if we didn't like automatically go in the way that they wanted us to go, they would like force it, right? Like you have to do this. And this is just, I'm doing this because it's the best thing for you. And and I just think that it is like that's not a judgment statement, it's just that's how it it was then. And I think one of the you know lovely things about you know parenting over the past, you know, 15, 20 years is that there's been a lot more, it's kind of opened up into, well, how can we really approach parenting in a way that's you know better for the child, right? And to be able to actually see this child for who they're showing up in the world. So they aren't, um, you know, they're kind of given to us for like this short period of time. And at minimum, we need to keep them alive, right? And then at maximum, maybe we can like help them really figure out who they are and and help them, you know, learn more about that while we have them in our lives, right? In this like container of, you know, 18 years, um, because then they're gone, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

And and and the relationship that we have after that point is really based on how good it was before.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Like the authenticity, I should say, of that relationship is based on that. Like, do you want to be in a relationship because your child wants to be in a relationship with you, or do you want to have a relationship because they feel guilted into it or because they feel like they have to? Right. So I think there's a big difference there too. That's probably a conversation for a good point. Yeah, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

We are so grateful that you shared with us today. And just, I mean, I I know people that needed to hear this conversation. So I know there's many more people out there that that need to hear this. I needed to hear this, quite honestly, just because it's such a great reminder. I love that that idea of not shaping our kids into something that we think that they should be. And that's something that, you know, I constantly have to remind myself. Do I want certain things for my kids? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, you're right. That's not, that's truly not our role. That's a, you know, we are just here to guide them and to be good people, kind people, loving people. Um, but that's it. We don't need to make them anything else. I mean, if we if we do that, we've been successful at our job. Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

A thousand percent. And we're gonna mess up doing that along the way and be okay with that, right? Like there's like because all these things are just teaching

Advocacy Beyond Coming Out 101

SPEAKER_01 56:43

our kids how to like people make mistakes. You're gonna make mistakes. You moment, you apologize, you move forward.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Yep. This was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

Thank you so, so where can people find you and your resources?

SPEAKER_02 56:58

So sweet.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Um, the easiest way, and and everything, everything is kind of the um under the umbrella of heatherhester.net. So you can find my book, my podcast, all the things I do. Um it is it is growing there. So come come be a part of it. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

Yes. We will definitely share that. You can also find that on our we will link that to our webpage and our social media. Of course, you can always find us at the Liless Podcast and Lilaspodcast.com. Thank you so much, Heather. Until next week, y'all, Lila. Thank you.