The LYLAS Podcast
If you know what LYLAS stands for, then this podcast is for you! Two besties since middle school turned moms and psychologists dish on "the good, the fun, and the yucks" of life! We're tackling all things mental health, "mom balance" (whatever the hell that is), transitions in life (divorce, career, aging parents, parent loss, loss of friendships), self-care, travel, healthy habits, raising kids, and allllllll the things us midlife mamas are experiencing. We hope each week listeners feel like they just left a good ol' therapy session with their bestie! We'll dish on all the tips and tricks to keep your mental health in check and enjoy this thing called life! Meet your life's newest cheerleaders-- Sarah & Jen! LYLAS!
The LYLAS Podcast
The LYLAS Podcast, Re-Release for the Summer, "Toxic Relationships"
Here is a classic and needed re-visit of our Season 2 episode, "Toxic Relationships." As we hopefully take some time to reflect while on a trip, sitting in our car enjoying a coffee or icecream, or while just finding a moment to breathe, we sometimes come to a point where we realize some relationships are no longer serving us and need to be let go with "love and light." Listen in as we hash this one out!
Also, don't forget to hit-up our social media with suggestions for Season 4 coming this fall!
Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com
Hello, hello, sarah Stevens, again with the Lylas Podcast, we are re-releasing another one of our favorite episodes, this time from season two. Toxic Relationships We've all been there, we might currently be one, and if we're being real real with ourselves, it could be possible that we might be the toxic person. In a relationship that we're with others, but how do we get out of it, how do we know what to do? And relationship that we're with others, but how do we get out of it? How do we know what to do? Tune in as Jen and I discuss what to do when we find ourselves in a toxic relationship. Also, be sure to follow us on all social media accounts, because we are creating, building, planning and recording season four. So if you have any suggestions for us or things that you want us to talk about, or give us a comment, suggestion or critique, please do so. Find us on Facebook, instagram, tiktok and on YouTube. Tune in as season four of the Lylas podcast is coming your way.
Speaker 2:Welcome to LILAS. If you grew up in the 90s then you probably know what that stands for, but we love you like a sis. So welcome to today's show. The first thing I wanted to say I was thinking about this on my morning walk is I was listening to an amazing podcast this morning and it just it had me thinking about a lot of stuff. She's got a huge following. Her name is Mel Robbins. If you've never listened to that podcast, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, she was like I don't know if you found us because we were on the today show or, you know, because we won some sort of like Webby uh award and I found her just scrolling through Instagram. But um started listening to our podcast. But I it got me thinking that you're not going to find Sarah and I on the today show right now. You're not going to find us winning awards at Webby or whatever the hell it's called.
Speaker 2:Um, we are just two moms that chose careers in the field of psychology and, after 15 years of practicing, weren't fulfilling, fulfilled in our roles anymore or just needed, felt like we needed a change and so decided to, um, try something completely different, something in a way that we could still serve our communities and like-minded women and men. And so we're just some average Janes over here doing a podcast. I I laughed because Sarah had never even I don't think you had ever even listened to a podcast. Whenever we originally said, whenever you called me that first time in November and you were like you want to do a podcast together? And I was like hell, yeah, I don't know how to do that, but yeah, let's do that. And you're like I don't even listen to them, but we can figure it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so here we are here we are and so, yeah, however you found us, we do this completely for free. We don't have ads, we're not sponsored. We are just putting ourselves out there each week and hope to build a community, but also to bring support to other women in this midlife kind of error that we're in. So if you are liking us on Facebook or Instagram or downloading our podcast each week and listening to it, you know that means so much to us. If you're sharing it with friends, it truly means the world to us. So thank you from the bottom of our hearts. This is our what?
Speaker 2:28th episode, I think I think so I remember, and I read the other day that most people there's like 3 million podcasts, first of all, most people who start a podcast quit after seven episodes. So I feel pretty good about that. We have tripled that at this point, almost quadrupled. So, yeah, we're doing the damn thing. We are so grateful to every person that tunes in and listens, and so thank you. I wanted to start by saying that.
Speaker 1:No, that's so sweet. I totally agree we're, we're. Our goal is to share real stories of real people together and just to, I guess, take part in all of that. Sharing with the gratitude totally in our hearts for everybody that's partaking in this listened, commented, liked, all of it. It's been, it's been so fun and we're looking forward to so much more.
Speaker 2:For sure. I think we just wanted to try something different and what has come has been so much better than we could have expected it. You know the reconnection from middle school best friends going from talking every couple months to every single day. And I think I was also thinking this morning about how I didn't realize how much I needed Sarah in my life In so many different ways. She's like the biggest supporter. She is so reliable, always there, and I just I needed that and I didn't realize that, I think back in the when we took this on.
Speaker 2:So anyway, it was some love before we get into it. Anyway, it was some love before we get into it. Today's topic is toxic relationships, and we had this title scribbled down months ago to talk about when we kind of do a brain dump and think about possible topics, and this was one that kept kind of resurfacing and I feel like I've seen a lot of it lately in social media. And just one that I have kind of wanted to talk about because I think that there's so much to learn if you've, I mean A I don't know anyone that has never been in a toxic relationship of some sort, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean it could be a partner, it could be a spouse, it could be a parent, it can be a sibling, it can be a friend, it could be a step parent or a step child, or I mean there's just so many, any relationship that exists. It could be a boss.
Speaker 2:It could be. You know anything, boss, you know anything. Any relationship that a person has can turn toxic or be toxic, and so sort of wanted to break that down. We're going to cover how do you identify if you're in a toxic relationship, and then can that be repaired, and then how do you move on if it can't. And so we're going to sort of break it down because I don't know. Like I said, I don't know anybody that's never been in one.
Speaker 1:And it was whenever I was in clinical practice. It was probably I mean, relationships were the number one problem that people would often present as exacerbating whatever it was that they were going through, whether it was anxiety, depression, general stress, their health conditions, constant caregiving, just feeling guilt, obligation, a sense of overwhelming negativity. I mean the amount of distress that an unhealthy or toxic relationship can cause on somebody is almost akin to living actively beside Chernobyl that is still emitting, you know, radiation and you're not allowed to live there. That is what a toxic relationship can be. It can be that bad, but not even like you can't see radiation. You can't see these things, but you can feel them and the effects of them are just so, so, so, permeating into every area of your life and we just, I think, so often feel trapped within them. So this is a good topic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad that you said that, because when we think about mental health, we we tend to identify, like you know, I have anxiety disorder, I have depression or whatever it is, but a lot of these things if you really start to peel back the layers, you start to see that underlying some of these you know, illnesses are, or disorders are toxic relationships on one level or another.
Speaker 2:And so it's so interesting to me when I think about my own life and what I was experiencing, and you know, really debilitating anxiety. I was definitely engaged in a toxic relationship, not with my partner, but I was in another toxic relationship at the time, and I just I think that it's so interesting that you say that because we tend to focus on the disorder and not look at everything, the whole scope of what's going on in our lives, Because we're people pleasers most of us, I think definitely I am and you tend to think well, if I just keep trying, I can make this better, I can make this better. You know, and that's part, I think that's one of those signs that you need to kind of look for in a relationship Relationship's not building you up, not making you better, you know, not bringing a smile to your face, a genuine love and joy to your heart, then it is probably not a good one.
Speaker 1:No, that's definitely true. Yeah, relationships are supposed to help to foster growth, independence, you know, warmth. They're supposed to be nurturing and not like condemning or obligatory.
Speaker 1:in a different, way or impose a lot of guilt or just reinforce, like negative consequences or thoughts and things like that. Like it's just really challenging, I think, to quantify all the different levels that an unhealthy relationship can be, and then on top of that, what takes it to that next level of toxicity. I mean, everybody can be in an unhealthy relationship and those are like a mild sense of something. But to be in a toxic one, that's a different, that's a different thing that takes a different approach to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Is that when you start to show like physical symptoms of some other kind? Would you say that that's what deviates between being an unhealthy relationship versus a toxic one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that A whatever you have going on in your life, if it becomes more intense whenever you are around that person or thinking about that person, then that is the sign that, like that again, that radiation meter whatever the hell that thing is called is going off and it's harmful. At that point it's not just annoying. Like unhealthy relationships can be annoying, they can be challenging, but they're tolerable to a point you know. But a toxic relationship it's almost like it has this own sense of feel to it that can't be seen but that just then consumes. It's consuming, I guess, is the way that I would say it, that if you find yourself talking about this person all the time, or thinking about them, or and it's not even like in a positive way it's almost like that you're trying to fix them or fix the relationship, or again, that there's something that is wrong and you're the only one that's working towards something, or that you're the only one to blame. Those are pretty narrow places to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a couple of the signs of toxicity. We're just going to break down some of the things that you can look for, because you may be thinking well, how do I know if I'm in a toxic relationship? I can tell you from my personal experience. I've had a couple experiences with toxic, toxic relationships, and one specifically that I'm thinking of today without giving like too many specific details. But one of them, like it wasn't always toxic, right, it definitely at some point was a very healthy, normal relationship, but there was a turning point where things changed and, uh, I never quite felt comfortable bringing up how I felt, or that that person had hurt my feelings, or that I just something didn't sit well with me, and so I think that that, first of all, it should have clued me in that something was wrong, that I didn't feel like I could say to that person this bothered me, this hurt my feelings. You know, if you can't clearly communicate your feelings, they're your feelings. You're allowed to feel however you want. If you can communicate that to someone, that's a sign that you might be in a toxic relationship.
Speaker 2:Um, some of the others just from quick search here um, constant criticism, if you're in a relationship with somebody that is constantly trying to like erode your self-esteem or tear you down or just kind of always biting back at you like in a negative way, that that's a sign that things are turning toxic, or just that constant like disrespect or a disregard for respecting someone. I always kind of I get really uncomfortable when I'm around two people and one disrespects the other like blatantly in a group setting. Like that always makes me just want to like crawl under the table. I get really for some reason I'm really sensitive to that. Um, and I think that that's probably because there's a toxic vibe that comes with someone openly disrespecting somebody in front of other people.
Speaker 1:It's very brazen, and that's a matter of control too. You know, if somebody is willing to do that in that kind of environment, then they clearly see themselves as being, you know, above high and mighty above high and mighty, and that's, that's a. That's a different thing. At that point.
Speaker 2:I completely agree. You actually just mentioned the third one, which is controlling and manipulating people, and so they kind of a lot of these things sort of go hand in hand. But, like guilt, tripping someone or using like tactics to control a person often indicates some sort of toxic relationship there. And then we all know people like this. I mean, I definitely have had friends or loved ones in the past. But if there is a partner that's trying to isolate you from your loved ones, from your family, from your friends, red flag like not okay. That isolation attempt is definitely something that could be considered toxic and lots of really regular, intense fighting. If that's happening, you're also probably engaging in a toxic relationship.
Speaker 1:Definitely, or if you're afraid, if you're using the word like you're almost afraid to get in trouble whenever you're in a relationship with somebody. That should also probably be a warning sign, like, if I don't do this, they're going to be mad, they're going to be upset. If we're adults having those kinds of thoughts about a relationship, that's a again, I know I'm using this saying a lot like it's a different thing than a kid being worried Well, I didn my bed, I'm gonna get in trouble. You know what I mean. It's a different thing whenever you're an adult wondering if you're going to get in trouble with a relationship that you're in, like I mean, unless you're like breaking the law, then I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know that that's a healthy feeling to be associated with a relationship so let me ask you this, because you have a lot of experience professionally in dealing with toxic relationships Can a relationship, can a toxic relationship, be toxic for one person and not the other?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, like the person I and the only reason I asked that is because you know we typically think it takes two to tango, two to be in a relationship and that you're probably everybody's bringing something to the table, but can you know, is it possible for only one person to be really having negative side effects from a relationship? I don't even know if that's the right word.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's a great word for it, and I think so, yeah. Relationship I don't even know if that's the right word. No, I think that's a great word for it, and I think so, yeah, and I think it's. It's also important to acknowledge that you know you don't have to be a bad person If you're, if you are the toxic person in a relationship like they're like I know for a fact that I am a toxic person to certain people because we've openly discussed that we are.
Speaker 1:We are too toxic to be mixed together. This is a bleach and ammonia situation. You know chemical reaction. Neither one of us really liked the other person at all. So it is best that we just acknowledge that we are equally toxic to each other and that we just can't work together, like there's just no part of either one of us that are able to to do this effectively or productively, and that in and of itself might even be productive and effective. If you just acknowledge that I'm a toxic person, this relationship, you're a toxic person to me and that just is what it is.
Speaker 2:I guess to expand on that question a little bit, and I just want your professional opinion on this. We've actually never talked about this, so I'll be curious to hear your answer. But when I think back to that one toxic relationship that I'm referring to and again this is from my perception, but if you're the, let's say, you know, I was feeling some of those signs that we just talked about of a toxic relationship, yet I didn't feel comfortable communicating those and I kept up the appearance of everything's fine, everything's fine, everything's fine, I'm going to, I'm going to fix it, I'm going to fix it, it'll be fine. I just kept rolling with it, is that or not? But is that contributing?
Speaker 1:to a toxic relationship. By not setting your boundary and clearly communicating your needs and your feelings yes, I believe that it is, and I don't you're reinforcing the behavior that's taking place because at that point that person may or may not even be able to acknowledge, or willing to acknowledge, that they're doing something wrong or that they're doing something hurtful, but also they don't know and all they're getting is positive, almost reward for what you're doing. And so it just kind of it just feeds this cycle in its own way, because you are aware that there's a problem but you're trying to be the only one to fix it and that might be again because of fear of that losing that relationship of conflict. A lot of people don't want to approach a situation that could become even more outwardly conflicted. We will hold on to conflict more internally. So whenever you were kind of going through that, there was this whole probably inner turmoil, inner discussions, thoughts, I don't know, replaying conversations that was happening in here but not out there, because we're afraid of that one Whenever.
Speaker 1:Honestly, the one that's happening in here is the more dangerous of the two most of the time, because whoever that is, mary Jo, is just out there living her best life while we're investing so much of ourselves and thinking about that other thing and that takes so much energy from our spirit, from ourselves physically, emotionally, I kind of feel like the best things.
Speaker 1:If you feel that way, it's almost like and this is kind of a graphic description, I use it a lot in clinic like that we have just cut off your arms and your legs and we're not doing anything to stop the blood loss, except pump more blood into you. You know it's not, I mean, it's not necessarily effective, but it's just. You're just continuing on with that and so it's. But it's hard because I think in recognizing a toxic relationship, there is the notion or the idea that it has to come to an end too, and that in and of itself can be scary, or it could be hard, or considered a loss or even a transformation of times. And again, those aren't emotions that many humans like to experience, and so what we'll do instead is avoid, and then that just continues to contribute to the cycle.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think, especially when it starts to involve other people that you love, and that you know that it's going to have a negative impact on the people that you love and so you're like, I can keep this up, I can deal with this, even though it's harmful or hurtful to me, because I don't want to hurt these people that I love.
Speaker 2:I think that's where you get kind of caught in maintaining a toxic relationship, whether you mean to or not. I can certainly tell you I didn't mean to continue on and let it fester, and until it eventually exploded, it just I was trying to protect everybody, I guess, in some way, and it's taken me a long time to come full circle on this and and realize again I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't mean to say that the other person was a bad person by any means. I just think that the relationship turned toxic. Like you said, they don't have to be a bad person, but in many ways I was reinforcing the behavior by not telling my truth, by not saying this bothers me, by not being honest about my feelings, and so, um, yeah, it's so easy to sort of just stay on the hamster wheel and just keep going and going and going. And I think about people in jobs. I mean, how many people have a job and they have a toxic work environment, and it's really hard to walk away.
Speaker 2:If you, let's say, you've been with a company for 15 or 20 years, you have great benefits, you have a ton of um, vacation time, um, you know you have all that. You have all these people that you work with that you actually do like, but then you have these few toxic people that really make your day just living hell. It's really hard to walk away from that when you've got all of these. You've got a family to support all the things, and so we just we continue on and we continue to reinforce or engage in toxic relationships, and so you know some of the. We've talked about some of the signs of a toxic relationship, but let's talk about some of the impact, what that looks like or what you might start to notice within your own life or within yourself to say, okay, this is really having an actual like impact on my physical and mental wellbeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean even just to kind of hit on some of those areas that you mentioned, like within work. If it's a toxic work environment, or you know the situation you described with coworkers, productivity goes down. Um your absences at a workplace increase Um people will start to experience a lot more non-specific somatic complaints.
Speaker 1:And so like aching tension, um, not feeling like, uh, comfortable. Again, not like a specific pain, but just like you know, it's not even like a fibromyalgia, but it's just like an ache almost within your body, um, sleeplessness, and sometimes you're not able to sleep whenever you're thinking about that person and interaction, a date in which you're going to have to meet up with them. Other things can be like again, like GI upsets, because if you're getting stressed out then that's going to mess with your stomach. But these are physical types of things again, somatic things that we don't think are often tied to relationships.
Speaker 1:But they are, because they have this emotional impact, and so, anytime our emotional system then gets engaged, everything's going to go to hell in a handbasket, and then, if you think that you're going to think through, well, in those moments, that's going to get all messed up too, because all the things are just focused on different areas, too many juices going for any of them to truly be, you know, affected, and that's just what's happening with you internally. So imagine at that point then what is getting emitted off of you yeah, from being in that situation, and who else that could potentially affect, just because we are still agreeing to be engaged in this.
Speaker 2:So yeah, as a society, we're so quick to treat symptoms right. We're so quick to treat anxiety, depression, physical ailments, insomnia, whatever it is. You know you're taking your CBD gummies and you're all the things you're trying. You're doing some sort of like gut health reset or gut protocol, or you're taking your headache medicine whatever it is, migraine medicine but never really stepping back and thinking, okay, what's contributing to this? What could be a potential factor in what's causing these ailments?
Speaker 2:So really interesting to me, just because, having experienced it, like as most people have, I'm not any different. I mean, I think everyone has. I mean, I'm sure I have been toxic to someone in the past. I'm just saying that, really taking a moment to step back and look at, okay, what relationships do I engage in frequently, regularly, that could be contributing to these ailments, versus just pumping yourself full of medications, medication I've said it a million times on this podcast. I think it's appropriate in certain situations, but you know, when you're, if you've got a laundry list of ailments, you've got to really think about what's causing this. What's the underlying issue here, which is hard for so many of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally agree issue here, which is hard for so many of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, definitely looking at the um, the physical toll that it's taking on you, also how it might be isolating you from your supportive network and um and your friends. You know, if you're in a relationship I know people that have been in relationships in the past and that person kind of takes them away from friend groups, you know, really starting to look at how you're being isolated, um, even though you might really enjoy your company or that person's company, if they are taking you away from other people that you love or you're not seeing your family as much, whatever it is that's, you know, something to consider as far as impact of a toxic relationship. And then, if you're completely losing your identity which I think a lot of people can identify with that If you've completely lost the things that you used to be passionate about, you're like I don't do that anymore. You know I used to do that, but I don't do that anymore. I just don't have time. Do you really not have time? Or is that the impact of a relationship that you're in?
Speaker 1:Right, right and and yeah, that's again. Where are you not doing it? Because, again, you're afraid that if you do it then there's going to be some negative consequence getting in trouble. You know a fight, you know what I mean. An accusation, whatever it is, there's just this apprehension that has that negative undertone to it. That's a pretty good sign.
Speaker 1:And, to credit your point, you mentioned earlier um, in getting in my clinical practice I know that sometimes we would call it a relationship back to me like we needed to. You know we're not doing an um. You know tonsillectomy here. We're taking out your tonsils, we're getting a relationship out of your life and oftentimes, whenever folks would do the hard work that that entails in order to make that happen, they would be able to come off of blood pressure medication, they'd be able to come off of antidepressants. I mean huge life changes that affected multiple areas of their health were able to be achieved just because they quit associating with someone who was toxic and or they reframed the idea of the relationship, and that in and of itself, as you kind of mentioned, might be a way to still have a relationship with someone but to not allow it to have the harmful effects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that was. My next question is is there any way to repair it? Like, let's say, you know, the relationship has become toxic, whether it's your spouse, a parent, like I said, it could be anybody, a sibling, anybody, boss, friend, anything. Is it possible to repair that relationship or is it? Is it done? Is it? Do you have to just break free and and walk away?
Speaker 1:Right Fun psychology answer. It depends, Right Um. It's always great.
Speaker 2:That's always fun.
Speaker 1:Um, but I would say that there's two, the two best ways to kind of approach and maybe go with this Um. One is that if you've identified it as a toxic relationship, it can never be a healthy relationship as it stands in the current context. So this is an example that was all the time in my office. It would just be like a mother and a daughter kind of a issue or something like that, where the mother or even the daughter at that point had an idea of the relationship that they wanted to have with that person, or this could apply to anything. I'm just using that as an example. And your idea of the relationship just does not match and no matter what you do, it's not going to. And even if what you think want, desire, maybe you deserve or maybe it's rational, it still doesn't matter because that's not what exists. And so then in your mind it's almost like you have to transform to what that actual relationship is now, and so maybe that person may have a biological relationship to you, but you really just have to see them as being someone different. Yeah, and that is the best way to kind of go about doing something.
Speaker 1:Elderly lady that I worked with and had no biological kids of her own but did have a? Um, a stepdaughter. That sorry um Seth. Sorry, we're going to have to break that one. But what happened with her was is that while her husband was alive she had this? Um sense of family, that kind of existed. Alive she had this sense of family, that kind of existed. But once he died she still had the notion that this person was a part of her family. But then we had to just kind of again transform that relationship because so many expectations, so many emotions, so much hurt was tied to it that it had to be seen as now. She was going to be the lady from church.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So no longer was she this person's daughter or your stepdaughter.
Speaker 1:We now have to see her as being the lady from church or that this person is not going to be seen as your brother, sister, aunt, uncle, co-worker. They're just going to be seen as the person that they are. They're just going to be seen as the person that they are. And so, by taking the context of that relationship out, you're able to then have some type of manageable relationship with them. But that's the key is that you have to really take the ideas of like this person was my best friend. No, this person is an associate that I know.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And then that is how you're able to kind of negotiate that. But even that has its limit. So if that doesn't work, then your next option and maybe only is to just again have that relationship ectomy where it is gone.
Speaker 2:Where it's just completely severed and you cut ties and say yeah, with light and love. I'll let you go.
Speaker 1:Right and there's no. And you know, to each their own um. For me personally, once I reached that point, um, I'll probably with anything, and maybe even to a degree at times of fault. But I do believe, whenever it comes to relationships, um, that once that's done, that's just done, and then I'm, I'm completely and totally, and what I mean by free of it is like I am a hundred percent free of it, like any emotional attachment to it, any worry, concern. It's almost as if things didn't exist in that moment, which is the best way for me to kind of move on with it. And at that point the relationship is dead and the person's no longer there, and so everything's fine.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think that's hard for some people, especially you think about if it was a parent or a sibling, someone that you truly deeply loved and had. Maybe things weren't always toxic. Like I said, you know, I think I truly believe that relationships can turn toxic. I think about, you know, my dad, unfortunately, towards the end of his life, when he was, you know, in the throes of alcoholism. He had, you know, been sober for 25 years, you know, and so the majority of my life. I never saw that side of them, but once that became at the forefront of our relationship we, you know, it became toxic.
Speaker 2:I couldn't handle it. I couldn't handle the stress and the phone call, I couldn't handle any of it. And so I created that boundary, which I look back and I'm like, wow, that was pretty mature of me at that time, thinking, you know, I was in my twenties, but I just told him I'm like, if you're drinking, I can't be around you, and and I had because I had that I needed to go into self-preservation mode at that point. And so interesting to me that I could do that with my dad and see it so clearly, maybe because it was so obvious. You know, when someone changes so quickly, it's much more obvious and you're like, okay, this has gone toxic versus like a slow burn, with like, perhaps like a friendship or like a colleague or something like that, where, again, it didn't start out toxic but it was like a slow burn. Maybe there was like an event that happened in the relationship and that caused things to turn toxic.
Speaker 2:Whatever it is, at some point, you know, once, once you kind of make that turn, you know you got to set that very clear boundary and communicate that. And that's clearly not something that I did well in, you know, this one particular relationship that I was in with a friend, and so it's just interesting looking back. You know how easy it was when it was so clear to me like, oh, things have changed versus, you know, the other was more like a slow burn. Over time it changed and and I started now I can see it very clearly, but you know, several years ago I couldn't see it. So setting that boundary, I think, is so important. But also just the first step is really just acknowledging that it's toxic. And that's hard in itself because, like you said, it's almost like a death.
Speaker 2:You're going to grieve, especially if it's somebody that you cared about, which most relationships are. We care about the person, but you're going to grieve that loss that you know is coming, or that of what was, and so that grief takes over, that anger takes it. All those like steps of grief are going to play into the end of that relationship. But you have to. I mean, first and foremost, you've got to admit that it's there and I think if both people are willing to admit that it's toxic and willing to admit that they want to work on their toxic behaviors, you can come to some sort of resolution and repair a relationship. But you need both people to say I'm willing to work at this, I'm willing to do better. It means enough to me to to put in the effort here and to listen to the other person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's definitely true and again, you'll know pretty quickly, likely, if they're really in it you know what I mean and if their intentions are pure in terms of being in it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if it's only one of you like say, I mean, say your goodbyes, cause it's not going. One person cannot change a toxic relationship. It's just gonna, like we said, reinforce that. So but let's say you have acknowledged it and you're saying it's okay, it's time to like, cut our losses here and move on, whether that's a partner that you've been with, you know, sometimes you've been with a partner four or five years, you might even live with them. It's time to cut ties with them. What would you say is the first step? Just reaching out and saying, hey look, this has turned toxic, turn toxic. For me personally, it's having a negative impact and I need, like what, what's? Some steps that you would give your clients in the past as far as moving forward with breaking free. I don't know, but getting out of it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that first you, like you said, you have to acknowledge that you're in one, but then you also need to build up those around you that are supportive, that are understanding, like those healthy relationships, those strongholds that you have, um need to know that you are going to be going through some type of like this may sound real woo, but like more of a transformational kind of process, and that you're probably just going to either need space or need help, need you know different things, and letting your core support system know that, I think, is important Because, again, it's. I mean, the treatment for radiation sickness is pretty intense. You know what I mean. So you're going to need some help and some assistance in the aftermath of that happening. And so making sure that your support system is good, that you are taking X, you know as good of care of yourself as what you're able to do within that kind of space, making sure that you're sticking to your habits, your routines, whatever your safeguards are, are important, because it's almost like a protective shield that you're going to be putting over you. Even if it's not going to turn into like a conflicted type of breakup, it's still important that you have this as part of your initial healing. You know even from it. And so those are the first recommendations with it.
Speaker 1:The second one is that anytime that you're going to be having a discussion with somebody who is toxic and that you're ending the relationship or transforming it, I just think as a safeguard, it's important for you to let someone else know, you know where you're going to have the talk, how long you anticipate it being. Make sure that that person is available by phone. And this may sound ridiculous that I'm like kind of jump into this extreme, but you know I've seen a lot of shit and I'm just trying to. You know, just watch out for yourself here, you know. I mean, if this person is, has had this negative effect on your life, don't just think that nothing is impossible from happening, maybe with them at like a park or at some place where that is open, so that way it's not again too dangerous within your own place and space with things. But also hostility and fights and negativity, depending on the severity of it, can leave an imprint, and not one that is like a footstep, but like an imprint on a space and a place, and I just don't know if you want to have that within your home or within a certain space, and so I just feel like it's best to have it in an open area. That again does ensure your physical and otherwise safety with it too, but that also does not further leave another toxic imprint on whatever space and place that you're going to be in. And I mean again, that may sound kind of woo or just a little bit too much, but everybody knows, whenever you walk into a room that has that tension in it, you can still feel it, you know. Or whenever you enter this space you may not be able to put your finger on it, but there's still that kind of like memory that's associated with it.
Speaker 1:Now I know people can't like, let's say, it's a partner relationship breakup, things like that. You may not be able to move to a new place or get a new house. You can move around the furniture, yeah, you can paint the place, you can do different things to change the environment so that that way that imprint isn't as impressioned there. But it's things that you're going to need to be able to do in the aftermath, otherwise it just kind of has a linger with it. But it's things that you're going to need to be able to do in the aftermath. Otherwise it just kind of has a linger with it. But you need a plan, you need a breakup plan from a toxic relationship and again following through with that, with extraordinary boundaries and knowing the ache that can sometimes come from that, how more susceptible you might be to going down that like, oh, I should have done this or maybe that or that kind of rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:Rabbit holes are not meant for humans to go down, so don't let your thoughts go down them either. Okay, I mean, Alice had a horrible time whenever she was in Wonderland. It was not the greatest place on the planet, despite what it was called. And it was not the greatest place on the planet, despite what it was called. So really just be aware of those things in the before, during and aftermath of it.
Speaker 2:And prepare yourself to know that things are going to change. You know it's going to change the dynamic with other people. Most likely, you know whether it's a shared friend group like, let's say, you were in a relationship with a partner for a long time and you shared a lot of friends like that's all going to change because they're going to feel awkward or feel like they have to choose sides. Or you know that's going to get weird quickly and so you have to be prepared for the fact that that's going to change. If it's a relationship with a parent and that you're walking away from or setting a very clear boundary, your holidays are going to change. You're not see that side of the family anymore. You may not see those. I mean, it's not to say that you can't still have those relationships, but be prepared for the fact that people are going to feel uncomfortable or not know if you you know that that's going to take effort and work in order to maintain those um, those like innocent bystanders.
Speaker 2:You know, the people that weren't in the relationship with you, obviously, but were part of the overall group. Um, that's going to be impacted in a breakup of some sort and I think that's hard. And the podcast that I referred to earlier, that I was listening to today, mel Robbins, it was all about Let them that's the name of the podcast and it's a fantastic episode. If you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend it. But it's about just, you know, there, let's say, you're, you, break up with somebody and all of your friends decide to, you know, still be friends with the partner and not you, let them let, let things be the way they are, let people show you who they are and just life. Life goes on. You will make new friends, you will date again, but you have to let things happen. You can't control the um, how the circumstances and how the fallouts. You can't control that and that was really hard for me. I'll be honest.
Speaker 2:In the beginning that was really difficult. When, uh, this relationship I've referred to, um, it sounds like it was my husband, it wasn't. But when the I, you know I try not to be specific just in case someone's listening that knows me. But, um, you know that was hard because I knew that it was going to impact so many people that I loved and cared about and I knew that I was going to feel left out of things and that I was going to feel like they were choosing the other person versus me or or whatnot.
Speaker 2:And I wish I had that episode to go back and listen to, you know, three years ago, to just say let it, let it happen, let it be. Now, three, almost three years later, I can say everything's going to be just fine, everything's work out the way that it's supposed to. You got to let it be. And so if you're somebody that's going through, um, you know, ending a toxic relationship right now, or this is really resonating with you Wow, I'm definitely in a toxic relationship. This is something I'm going to have to work through. Prepare yourself because those are hard.
Speaker 2:And then go listen to Mel Robbins episode on let you know let them, because it will change your mindset and um controlling things that are just out of your control at the end of the day, if you're trying to control something you know outside of yourself, then it's a problem and you've got to let them. Let them do their thing and you do yours, cause that's truly. All we can control is ourselves, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm glad you sent me that today too, because whenever you were texting me about it I was like, okay, I'm going to listen to it and it was perfect timing for me. My life, some things that are going on in it, and it just, I mean, it just does come down to that. You just sometimes just have to let, just let it be and know that you don't have control over it and you don't have control over how other people are going to respond to the situation either, and so and they may never agree with your decision to also, um, to eliminate that person from your life. So, you know, and just as a you know kind of aside, I'm not just preaching based upon, you know, research and clinical experience. This is life experience too, and so just to again not go real thick within the weeds, but technically I have a biological sibling and that is all that person is to me, period Right, due to numerous things that have happened and honestly, we probably just weren't ever meant to be like the. I like how you and your sibling are. It just was what it was.
Speaker 1:But whenever you even hear me on the podcast talk about our like childhood, I always reference we. But if you know me, then most of the time I say that I'm an only child and I am again a hundred percent at peace and I feel good about that decision, I feel freed, I am I. I mean it sounds off, maybe it sounds awful, I don't know. I love it because that's where I have found the release from that. Now my parents still struggle with that and that's theirs to struggle with, that's not mine, and so right. So we let them and I've let them for over 15 years now um kind of do that, which again, everybody kind of comes to their own point and place with things, but it's not my job to manage their reactions to my decision. That's right, and so that has been a very easy process.
Speaker 2:And I think, going back to what you said at the very beginning of this episode, is that just because you're in a toxic relationship, it doesn't make the other person a bad person.
Speaker 2:Your brother's not a bad person, you all just had toxic relationship and you have to separate that at some point. You have to be willing to say in some way, shape or form, you know I had a hand in this In some way, shape or form. You know I had a hand in this. I had I contributed in some fashion to maintaining a toxic relationship. That doesn't mean the other person is bad or evil or did me wrong or is this is a narcissist, what all the things you know. I mean they can I shouldn't say all situations.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there are some toxic relationships where definitely one person is at fault. If someone is, we're not talking about somebody. That's like abusing you physically, emotionally, we're not talking. I mean, although some of the the things we talked about could be viewed as a form of emotional abuse. But, um, you know, certainly, like in the the example that I gave of my dad, like his alcoholism was definitely a negative behavior and it was. It was the primary cause of turning that relationship toxic at that time and it wasn't. If he was sober, it wasn't toxic. We had a beautiful relationship. But if he wasn't, it was toxic because the way that it was impacting me. And so I think it's just important to reiterate we're not, you know you're not going. Oh, this is a toxic relationship because this is a bad person, not necessarily. It's just identifying that this relationship is toxic and that it's having this impact on you, and what are you going to do to then move forward are you going to bring it to their attention?
Speaker 2:set boundaries, make a plan, what all the things or you know? Are you gonna ghost them and hope for the best? Don't do that. Don't ghost them. That's also a form of manipulation by ignoring people especially if you go back.
Speaker 1:If you go back, then it's definitely manipulation. If you just go something like it, we're done. That's a little different. But yeah, if you go back, that's whenever you know, that's that's. That's not okay.
Speaker 2:It's reinforcing, you know you're going to reinforce the relationship by going back and pretending nothing's wrong or anything happened, or if you just totally ghost you know somebody ghost you. That's also a sign of manipulation. If they're not willing to have a conversation, at least to say or to hear you out or to speak their piece, then that's again reinforcing a toxic relationship. And, um, it's hard, it's not easy, it's not easy to say you know that this relationship turned toxic. I mean, those are difficult conversations to have. Nobody likes conflict. I don't, I don't know anybody that likes conflict. Um, but nevertheless, if it's having a physical toll on you, then you have got to do something about it. Speaking of toxic relationships, I'm about to go postal on my family. That will not give me an hour to record this podcast. We're slamming stuff in the kitchen. I got my kids coming out of the woodwork.
Speaker 2:I'm like seriously though don't stay in a toxic relationship, don't let it bubble up until you explode. Recognize it, do something about it and yeah.
Speaker 1:And don't shame yourself for figuring it out, you know, I mean. The thing is is that maybe the, maybe the toxic person isn't a bad person, as we've been saying, but also maybe they are okay, maybe they actually are really bad or mistreating you. Yes, not well on their own, whatever.
Speaker 2:Right, or they've got some work to do on themselves as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but don't judge yourself poorly for engaging in something and going down that oh, I should have seen, I should have not. No, ma'am Like, that's just not. That's not even fair because of numerous factors. Just be mindful of going down again. Rabbit holes are meant for rabbits, not for humans, not for our thoughts, and so stay away, but get help if you need it. I mean, that was one thing that I think that you even mentioned. It's tough, and if you notice, or maybe even you're not even aware, that it is the contributing factor to so much of your distress, it is very beneficial to go and get some professional assistance from someone to help you with these relationships.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, to help you perhaps make the plan, or just to help you see, you know how it's impacting you, or or that it is a toxic relationship. Certainly, I think oftentimes I could have probably benefited from seeing a therapist during that time period, cause it was just so, um, it was stressful, it was a hard, hard time in my life. But I also look at what came out of it, like if we a lot of the stuff we talked about focusing on your self care, focusing, you know, prior prioritizing your mental health, prioritizing, um, really evolving yourself and looking back and what's the lesson that I learned? You know you've got to really look at your part. And then also, there's a lesson in everything, and so never reflect and go shoulda, coulda, woulda I mean we all do that but really start to look at okay, what was the lesson in this?
Speaker 2:Cause there's always one. So, anyway, prioritize yourself, get some help and then embrace some personal growth that's truly the best thing, I think, that you can do from personal experience that is. That is um. It's been incredible I definitely for Anyway, I've enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 2:I mean kind of a heavy topic, but I really enjoyed this, I think, because it's something that weighs so heavy on my heart and um, and you're such a great resource, so check us out. Speaking of resources, check out our resource page at the lilesspodcastcom, uh, check us out on Instagram and Facebook. Uh, leave us a message, share this episode with your friends, give us a like, write us a review, um, do something. It's anything that's free. We're not asking for much. We're just asking for a little love, um, so that we can continue to grow this audience and this community. We're so grateful again for every download. So, yeah, next week we'll have another. We'll have a fun topic next week. We haven't decided what it is, but oh, actually no, we do next week's topic next week.
Speaker 1:So yeah too, but it's an inspiring inspiring.
Speaker 2:I think it's great. Yeah, we're all about inspiration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so next week we'll have a super treat. We're going to keep it under wraps for right now, but if you want a positive, I mean probably just have some tissues. I'm probably going to cry, I mean I'm just going to go ahead and just probably prepare myself for that kind of moment with it. But it's going to be a very, I think, inspiring but very heartfelt, wrenching, beautiful real life, real person story that we're very honored to be sharing with everybody.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We've got another guest coming next week. Another you know midlife mama going to get real week. Another you know midlife mama going to get real, raw, real, you know, honest, and uh, it's a beautiful story overall I don't even know how to say that, but a lot of hope. So check us out next week. Until next week, everybody, Lylas.
Speaker 1:We's out, see ya, you.
